Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Read the Susan Polger interview in the link above. There are lots of barriers to girls and women playing chess. A protected class for female players helps to overcome them.



No. The post suggesting it wasn't by me but was posted as irrelevant whataboutery and an attempt to link the demand that men play in the women's category with the abuse gay men get, when the 2 things are unrelated.

Other than those required by her to start her own class off, and get it approved, what are they.
I'll refer you to the her pictures of her playing chess in the pool of an all male club, male only facilities, in a swimsuit. Do you see her invasion of a protected single sex space as "illegal". If not why not?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Name a few (reasons why girls and women need a separate class in chess), off the top of your head. No searching as you seem to have the answer ready.

I have done this already. Susan Polger does it at length in the article link.

Can't possibly be single sex playing areas as Polgar is shown in her own piece, playing against a man in an all male club. Some double standards at play doing that. She's in their space.

Where does it say it's an all male club? You've just assumed it is because she's the only woman there. It looks like a hotel pool, presumably at a chess tournament. Twenty years later in the second pic, and she is still the only woman.

You just proved one of the reasons why women need their own competition, whilst inadvertently insisting she's invading a male only space that isn't actually a male only space at all. It's a mixed space full of males.

 

[classic33]

I have done this already. Susan Polger does it at length in the article link.


Where does it say it's an all male club? You've just assumed it is because she's the only woman there. It looks like a hotel pool, presumably at a chess tournament. Twenty years later in the second pic, and she is still the only woman.

You just proved one of the reasons why women need their own competition, whilst inadvertently insisting she's invading a male only space that isn't actually a male only space at all. It's a mixed space full of males.

View attachment 5306

Give them then.
You've now ruled out single sex spaces, unless you still maintain it only pertains to men in women's spaces, not the other way round.


Proof required that it isn't a male only club. And that she's not in a swimsuit in a pool with men at that club.

 

[AndyRM]

I wonder if they've given any consideration for FTM transition, or if they'd get lobbed into the "open" category too? And if that's the case, then what's the point in even having different competitions? Make all chess tournaments open to everyone. Problem solved, right?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Give them then.

I have already, and the article expands on them.

You've now ruled out single sex spaces, unless you still maintain it only pertains to men in women's spaces, not the other way round.

No, I've often said men are entitled to their spaces too.

Proof required that it isn't a male only club. And that she's not in a swimsuit in a pool with men at that club.

It's you making the assertion it's an all male pool or club. Looks like a hotel pool to me so she's entitled to be there. It's all men in the photo because next to no women were competing in high level chess in the '80's. It's still only about 20% now. Which is kind of why....

I wonder if they've given any consideration for FTM transition, or if they'd get lobbed into the "open" category too? And if that's the case, then what's the point in even having different competitions? Make all chess tournaments open to everyone. Problem solved, right?

Transmen would be eligible to play in either the Women's or the Open (which is open to both male and female). You're really not getting why there needs to be a protected Woman's category in some areas. Do you think prizes and opportunities for groups that are historically underrepresented in certain disciplines should be dissolved? By your logic surely the applicants for a scholarship aimed at say ethnic minorities could just compete with the mainstream applicants for scholarships. It's because it's not about them not being bright enough, it's about addressing historical imbalances and working towards a situation where such separate categories and opportunities are no longer needed.

 

[AndyRM]

Well no, they wouldn't. We fundamentally don't agree on what transitioning means, that's fine.

As for protected spaces, I do agree they should exist, but not how you'd have them, which is also fine.

I agree with your last sentence, but not due to redressing historical imbalances.

 

[CXRAndy]

Grass roots sports forwomen only categories should be protected at all costs or face being defunded report says

 

[AndyRM]

Good old Policy Exchange.

Here's an article about the report you couldn't be arsed to link to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...nk-female-only-categories-uk-grassroots-sport

I see they have a pop at parkrun, arguably the one of the most successful grassroots sporting stories around. Way to go!

 

[multitool]

Good old Policy Exchange.

Here's an article about the report you couldn't be arsed to link to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...nk-female-only-categories-uk-grassroots-sport

I see they have a pop at parkrun, arguably the one of the most successful grassroots sporting stories around. Way to go!

Policy Exchange is essentially the right-wing lobby group of the Conservative party. Any "report" by them should be regarded as what it is; propaganda with a view to maintaining the Tory hegemony. It certainly is not research, or reflective of public opinion.

If these pricks have put something out about trans women and Parkrun it is both pathetically risible and indicative of their continued attempts to use trans people as canon-fodder in their politically-motivated culture war.

Naturally, they'll suck in a handful of weirdo internet obsessives on the way (here's looking at you GC crew ) but it ought to be clear to them by now that despite the all out assault on trans women in the right-wing client press, the general public are not buying this crap.

Why? Because they can easily compare the confected moral panic to their own lived experience and see that it is not relatable. Not only will most of them never have encountered a TW, nor will they have met anyone who has suffered at the hands of a TW.

They know its crap.

This entire panic exists only in the minds of a small number of frankly very odd but vociferous people who would have no audience were it not for the Internet. There will always be people like this in life. If it wasn't the GC cult they were buying into, it would be David Icke or anti-vax or whatever.

 

[Beebo]

Good old Policy Exchange.

Here's an article about the report you couldn't be arsed to link to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...nk-female-only-categories-uk-grassroots-sport

I see they have a pop at parkrun, arguably the one of the most successful grassroots sporting stories around. Way to go!

And as pointed out previously, anyone can register for free. It’s not a competitive sport. There is no way to check anyone’s gender. I could register as a 15 year old female and no one could stop me.
But so what, it’s a community fitness program not a competition.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Then don't record times in categories or celebrate course records in categories at Park Run. Just let runners record their individual times if they want to. If you're going to have categories they should be fair categories. If you're going to record results they should be fair results.

Just because fairness at Park Run doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't, and shouldn't, matter to others.

 

[AndyRM]

If you started categorising parkrun more than it already is, you'd lose the beauty of its simplicity and make things an absolute nightmare for the volunteers who put them on each week.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It doesn't need more categories. It just needs people to run in the appropriate category to ensure fairness, whether that's age or sex. I'm not convinced you would be as supportive of 25 year olds running in the kids category, or in the 70 plus category. We've discussed this at length before though. You either believe in fairness in sport as a principle and that those participating at all levels deserve it or you don't.

 

[AndyRM]

There are two parkruns: parkrun and junior parkrun. The recordings are of time, and profiles are up to the runner. There are no medals, you don't qualify for anything, the times count for the runner and the runner only.

There's nothing unfair whatsoever about it.

 

[multitool]

His Majesty's Chief Inspector of Genitalia* doesn't agree

(*self-appointed)