Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Nobody has ever said that, Classic. If anything you are presenting an argument for sex specific campaigns for awareness of breast cancer so that more people know that men can get it too rather than just 'people'.

Why not answer the question asked rather than diverting to avoid a direct question?

Who are 'people', by your definition?

 

[monkers]

There are some people who think an inverted penis is a vagina, so yes, ignorance of biology abounds.

They don't invert the whole penis. It's a graft made from penile skin. Skin grafts are a common surgical procedure, women are not exempt from their use whatever their cis / trans status. Nobody would raise questions about where the grafts came from to repair Simon Weston's face.

You just enjoy the language of bigotry - trouble is it makes you sound like a bigot.

 

[monkers]

Thanks for explaining why clear and accurate language is necessary. 'Women' instead of 'people' when we are talking about female specific medical conditions is important in order to reach the target audience. 'Woman' instead of vulva owner or vagina haver or people with cervixes is much clearer when telling women who it is who needs to have scans and examinations.

Exactly why 'people who menstruate' is the appropriate term. This obviously excludes trans women, but are they the ones doing the complaining?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why not answer the question asked rather than diverting to avoid a direct question?

Who are 'people', by your definition?

Because we've already discussed your unfortunate experiences with the NHS at length. Of course everybody who is treated for breast cancer should be treated with care and compassion, regardless of their sex. That includes privacy and dignity for both men and women when appropriate. I'm genuinely sorry you felt you weren't. It doesn't undermine the need for single sex spaces or clear language though.

'People' means everybody. If you want to target a male disease, saying 'people' rather than 'men' is unhelpful. A campaign about male breast cancer that said 'Other people get breast cancer too' is more confusing than 'Men can get breast cancer too'.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Exactly why 'people who menstruate' is the appropriate term. This obviously excludes trans women, but are they the ones doing the complaining?

You've just said there are women who don't know where the vulva is, or where the cervix is .... but now you think 'people who menstruate' is clearer than 'women'. Bit hypocritical there, or rather flip flopping when it suits.

Of course the obvious phrase to use would be 'Women and transmen' and 'Men and transwomen', which is clear but covers all those who need to know.

This is unacceptable to transactivists though. Perhaps because the first phrase reminds men that they aren't women, and the second reminds them that they are men.

 

[classic33]

Because we've already discussed your unfortunate experiences with the NHS at length. Of course everybody who is treated for breast cancer should be treated with care and compassion, regardless of their sex. That includes privacy and dignity for both men and women when appropriate. I'm genuinely sorry you felt you weren't. It doesn't undermine the need for single sex spaces or clear language though.

'People' means everybody. If you want to target a male disease, saying 'people' rather than 'men' is unhelpful. A campaign about male breast cancer that said 'Other people get breast cancer too' is more confusing than 'Men can get breast cancer too'.

Still dodging direct questions.

You've said I should have shown more understanding and respected the dignity and privacy of the women and girls in the same waiting area. Even those that wanted me out of "their area". Your "reasoning" being that as it's only a minority of men affected, so we don't matter. You accused me of exaggerating the situation, yet you were not there.

I wasn't the only man in that area, or any other waiting area.

"Other people", you really should stop digging that hole. Cancer can get anyone, it's no respecter of anyone, money or status. You'd do well to remember that bit.

 

[monkers]

You've just said there are women who don't know where the vulva is, or where the cervix is .... but now you think 'people who menstruate' is clearer than 'women'. Bit hypocritical there, or rather flip flopping when it suits.

Of course the obvious phrase to use would be 'Women and transmen' and 'Men and transwomen', which is clear but covers all those who need to know.

This is unacceptable to transactivists though. Perhaps because the first phrase reminds men that they aren't women, and the second reminds them that they are men.

The NHS require people who menstruate to attend, not woman and girls who do not. It's the clearest language to call those who need screening to attend screening. As a result, the NHS who don't have money to waste, work efficiently to the benefit of people who menstruate, overwhelmingly women and girls.

Yet in your head, it's just another way to abuse a marginalised group of people. I reckon most people will understand - but not you of course - just another opportunity to propagate hate.


View: https://youtu.be/_rDKzbp5Tsk

 

[AuroraSaab]

Still dodging direct questions.

You've said I should have shown more understanding and respected the dignity and privacy of the women and girls in the same waiting area. Even those that wanted me out of "their area". Your "reasoning" being that as it's only a minority of men affected, so we don't matter. You accused me of exaggerating the situation, yet you were not there.

I wasn't the only man in that area, or any other waiting area.

"Other people", you really should stop digging that hole. Cancer can get anyone, it's no respecter of anyone, money or status. You'd do well to remember that bit.

I've done none of that. It's unfortunate that you are fixated on the response you received from the women in the hospital waiting room, but it's not in itself an argument for admitting men into women's spaces.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The NHS require people who menstruate to attend, not woman and girls who do not. It's the clearest language to call those who need screening to attend screening.

If, as you claim there, are women who don't know about cervixes and vulvas, there will be girls and women who don't know what menstruate means and that it only applies to girls and women. Men don't have periods, so there's no need to talk about 'people', just as there's no need to talk about 'people who need a prostate exam'. 'Cos it's just men who need them, not people in general.

View: https://youtu.be/_rDKzbp5Tsk

Heterosexual woman has a homophobic rant and tells a gay man who he should include in his community.

 

[monkers]

If, as you claim there, are women who don't know about cervixes and vulvas, there will be girls and women who don't know what menstruate means and that it only applies to girls and women. Men don't have periods, so there's no need to talk about 'people', just as there's no need to talk about 'people who need a prostate exam'. 'Cos it's just men who need them, not people in general.



Heterosexual woman has a homophobic rant and tells a gay man who he should include in his community.

You sound more deranged by the day. We need everyone to understand what the word 'menstruate' means - we don't do that by banning sex education in schools which is what some fruitloops want. Are you one them?

 

[classic33]

I've done none of that. It's unfortunate that you are fixated on the response you received from the women in the hospital waiting room, but it's not in itself an argument for admitting men into women's spaces.

You're certain on that part. You accused me of overplaying what happened, and being disrespectful to women. As you put, incorrectly, it's only 1% of men so why should the service be there for them.

Using your constant argument of safety and dignity*, why are you insistent that it should only be women and girls that should be given this?

Or should the treatment be equally available to all those who require it?
Why should a man have to have staff willing to stay behind, for after hours appointments to receive treatment. They work hard enough, short staffing doesn't help, as it is. Who are you to say that is the standard of treatment a man is entitled to?

*Your fixated on this point, but only if it'll apply to one section of society.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You sound more deranged by the day. We need everyone to understand what the word 'menstruate' means - we don't do that by banning sex education in schools which is what some fruitloops want. Are you one them?

No, I don't want to ban sex education in schools. I'd like it to be based on facts and science and not done by outside groups with an activist agenda though. Once again, you're just chucking random stuff out there and hoping people believe you.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Using your constant argument of safety and dignity*, why are you insistent that it should only be women and girls that should be given this?

I've repeatedly said to you that men need single sex spaces and facilities too. I mean, probably like 20 plus times. I don't think they should have to share prisons and sports with women.

Or should the treatment be equally available to all those who require it? Why should a man have to have staff willing to stay behind, for after hours appointments to receive treatment. They work hard enough, short staffing doesn't help, as it is. Who are you to say that is the standard of treatment a man is entitled to?

No idea what you are on about here.

 

[Deleted member 159]

View: https://twitter.com/garylfrancione/status/1763292516290310198?t=U3doTXaSxHpL4xaCjub9lw&s=19

 

[monkers]

View: https://twitter.com/garylfrancione/status/1763292516290310198?t=U3doTXaSxHpL4xaCjub9lw&s=19

If this was written by a professor, he should eat his hat.



Prof. Gary Francione
@garylfrancione

Saying that a violent crime committed by a man was committed by a woman is nothing more than a transparent attempt to make women appear to be as violent as men and thereby to refute claims that women should be protected from male violence by keeping their private/intimate spaces.

Trans people do not exist to make women look as violent as men. Pure stuff and nonsense. I thought even a box of rocks would spot that one.