Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

You are under the impression there is a third sex.

False attribution again. I've never said that I believe in three sexes. You are another who is thoroughly dishonest. If you can't win your argument without dishonesty, then by default you lose. Loser is a word that suits you well.

I see you've tried to dodge this question.

As this is adjacent to a cycling platform, riddle me this ... who is typically faster in a 10 mile time trial event; a 40 year old woman, or a 65 year old man?

Let's have an answer please.

Addendum: I now see you did attempt an answer.

 

[monkers]

You deliberately picked an older man who by the age of 65 could well be in physical decline compared to a woman who at 40 is still classed young in this day n age.

Wrong again, I picked a scenario where there is established evidence. BTW ... the correct answer is the female rider.

 

[classic33]

Oh I dunno, I think she looks pretty good actually. You can dip her in chocolate and throw her my way!


View attachment 5790

Lucky No. 13?

 

[Deleted member 159]

Amazing what testosterone and anabolic steroids do.

 

[monkers]

Lucky No. 13?
View attachment 5791

I've already got an ironing board thanks.

 

[monkers]

Amazing what testosterone and anabolic steroids do.

Amazing what happens to a formerly male body when you take the testosterone away too. Add oestrogen and it is no longer the same shape.

 

[Deleted member 159]

You can't remove what testosterone does to the male body after puberty.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Wrong again, I picked a scenario where there is established evidence. BTW ... the correct answer is the female rider.

Presuming that they are at an equal level re health and training, why is it a surprise that a good 40 year old female cyclist would beat a good 70 year old male cyclist? The extra 30 years would cancel out some of the male body advantage.

Amazing what happens to a formerly male body when you take the testosterone away too. Add oestrogen and it is no longer the same shape.

Doesn't change lung capacity or larger heart's ability, or all the other stuff that advantages a male body in most sports.

 

[monkers]

You can't remove what testosterone does to the male body after puberty.

You sure about that?

Testosterone helps maintain a number of important bodily functions in men, including:

• sex drive
• sperm production
• muscle mass/strength
• fat distribution
• bone density
• red blood cell production

Because testosterone affects so many functions, its decrease can bring about significant physical and emotional changes.

That's just the symptoms for lower testosterone such as in older years.

Now add a bit of extra oestrogen to a male body still producing testosterone.

Physical effects​

Estrogen — specifically, a type of estrogen called estradiol — suppresses testosterone, reducing its effects on the body, says Forcier.

As a result, you may notice some of the following:

• decreased libido
• erectile dysfunction
• increased chest (breast) tissue
• fat redistribution to hips and chest
• softer skin
• thinning facial and body hair

Now completely remove testosterone and add higher levels of oestrogen.

Then you have a trans woman, markedly different from their former self.

 

[monkers]

Presuming that they are at an equal level re health and training, why is it a surprise that a good 40 year old female cyclist would beat a good 70 year old male cyclist? The extra 30 years would cancel out some of the male body advantage.

The ages were actually 40 and 65, so a 25 year gap. That aside here is finally the admission that sex is not the sole determinant of sporting performance. Age is also a strong determinant of potential performance.

In men the decline is related to drop in testosterone levels. In trans women the drastic reduction / elimination of testosterone has a similar effect - a marked loss of performance.

It is absolute nonsense to say that because some teenage boys can run faster than some female athletes that this is the case for trans women.

Not only is the case that the logic doesn't flow, but it is the case that the physiological changes in trans women make this possibility very small indeed. Testosterone is not only significant for competition but for training. A formerly male body deprived of testosterone and loaded with oestrogen can not possibly continue as before after but a few months.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The ages were actually 40 and 65, so a 25 year gap. That aside here is finally the admission that sex is not the sole determinant of sporting performance. Age is also a strong determinant of potential performance.

Nobody ever said it was. But when the athletes are like for like, it's the biggest determinant.

In men the decline is related to drop in testosterone levels. In trans women the drastic reduction / elimination of testosterone has a similar effect - a marked loss of performance.

But not a big enough loss to mitigate for the residual advantage of having a male body. Doesn't make your hands smaller for swimming or make you lose height for basketball. Doesn't reduce your punching power by 40%, which is the difference between male and female in boxing.

We know this because in athletes of the same ability/level, age, size, training, funding .... in like for like comparisons the males invariably perform better.

Not only is the case that the logic doesn't flow, but it is the case that the physiological changes in trans women make this possibility very small indeed. Testosterone is not only significant for competition but for training. A formerly male body deprived of testosterone and loaded with oestrogen can not possibly continue as before after but a few months.

How do you explain those who perform poorly in the Men's rankings but suddenly become winners in the Women's category?

4th in the Women's, would have been 43rd in the Men's. And very pleased at being an amateur who beat lots of women who ride full time. What gave them the edge over such talented women?


View: https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1769417647933047078

 

[monkers]

Nobody ever said it was. But when the athletes are like for like, it's the biggest determinant.

Finally you seem to acknowledge that trans women are not teenage boys. As I said earlier, trans women are not even teenagers let alone 'boys'.

Why the resistance?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Again genius, I never called the reference to activism in the Cass report 'bullshit'. You are another one inventing bullshit here.

Who is the genius here? I don't want to downplay on you i mean you came with your high horse not to prove something but to tell us mere mortals how we are wrong and you are correct, how you are the righteous the chosen one, the precious...

But you are sitting so high that you don't seem to see the finer details, like when you make such a point off the fact that a certain qoute came from somewhere else, and highlight that numberous times that the implication is that you imply that it would not be in the cass report without even saying it. So that when cornered you can come back with ''but i never said it wasn't in there'' but it is dishonest and you know it. Bit disapointing to be honest, from someone stiing so high on the horse being righteous

You might note that the debate was toxic with activists on both sides. It's bullshit to say that the only possible meaning of Cass's word 'activism' included only trans activists, and that she did not or could not have equally meant anti-trans activists too.

The point wasn't about activism it was about activism influencing decisions and expert being sidelined, the side of the activist doesn't really matter to me to be honest.

I am not. It is not evidence that trans women are faster than women's world record times. It's a category error - trans women are not teenage boys.

Sex is not the sole predictor of success in sport.

As this is adjacent to a cycling platform, riddle me this ... who is typically faster in a 10 mile time trial event; a 40 year old woman, or a 65 year old man?

So you can produce a list of sports that are intense to the body where the woman categories outclasses the men? You can't because there arent't any there are biological differences between a born men and born women bodies, that is an fact.
and no sex is not the only predictor but if you put two athletes of the same age/form etc. up against each other with the only difference being their biological gender the biological male will win. it is that simple

 

[monkers]

Who is the genius here? I don't want to downplay on you i mean you came with your high horse not to prove something but to tell us mere mortals how we are wrong and you are correct, how you are the righteous the chosen one, the precious...

But you are sitting so high that you don't seem to see the finer details, like when you make such a point off the fact that a certain qoute came from somewhere else, and highlight that numberous times that the implication is that you imply that it would not be in the cass report without even saying it. So that when cornered you can come back with ''but i never said it wasn't in there'' but it is dishonest and you know it. Bit disapointing to be honest, from someone stiing so high on the horse being righteous

The point wasn't about activism it was about activism influencing decisions and expert being sidelined, the side of the activist doesn't really matter to me to be honest.



So you can produce a list of sports that are intense to the body where the woman categories outclasses the men? You can't because there arent't any there are biological differences between a born men and born women bodies, that is an fact.
and no sex is not the only predictor but if you put two athletes of the same age/form etc. up against each other with the only difference being their biological gender the biological male will win. it is that simple

Ah you're back. Are going to say again that I write a lot of piffling words of waffle? See above genius.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Finally you seem to acknowledge that trans women are not teenage boys. As I said earlier, trans women are not even teenagers let alone 'boys'.

Why the resistance?

Boys are male and trans are male.