Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

So earlier you went on about the ''swedish study'' and how forced castration didn't work, yet you keep on getting pennises into this discussion, while i and others already pointed out rapist don't nessacary need to use their penis, i gave you an example of that weird body modification cult earlier.(and rape with objects is also a thing, the law does not require an working penis to classify something as rape.)
So similarly i think it would be wrong to assume that just because of hormone therapy trans women wouldn't be an risk, as the science around rapist seems to move more towards narcistic kind of personalty traits then just the need to get off to put it like that, so what exactly makes you think those individuals would be a smaller risk due to hormone treatment?

Also you keep on personally attacking @AuroraSaab for repeating the same thing but you do exactly the same, go see for yourself about 10 pages back we had a discussion about ''floppy penisses'' which is exactly the same point. So maybe apply that mirror suggestion to yourself aswell?

I went on about

I debunked the bullshit we've been hearing from AuroraSaab. Why do you object to this? Does truth have no value?

yet you keep on getting pennises into this discussion, while i and others already pointed out rapist don't nessacary need to use their penis,

A person can not commit rape without a penis. A person without a sexually functioning penis can not penetrate a vagina or anus. There remains the possibility however unlikely that a person could force another person to accept an atrophied flacid penis into their mouth. However there seems to be no reports of this ever happening (with regard to trans women offenders).

Rapists do have to use their penis to commit rape as solo actors. A charge of rape can be brought to accomplices to rape regardless of their biological or legal sex.

The law does not consider 'rape with objects' as rape. It is serious sexual assault. The sentencing framework for each of those crimes is similar.

I didn't make the mistake of reading your post about weird body modification culture. Why would I?

You used the words 'I think' - I don't think that you do think. I think that you write against the interests of trans people due to irrational prejudice, in a fact free environment somewhere inside your head.

I think that rape and serious sexual assault are abhorrent crimes. I think people that commit such crimes need to be caught, charged, and sentenced to prison where found guilty in a fair trial before a jury. I don't believe in trial by bigots on an on-line forum space, or trial by media. I believe that people have the right to the presumption of innocence until they are proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

In the court of opinion held by bigots, all trans women are found guilty of hypothetical crimes and crimes that they have never committed. This disgusts me. It is what you seem keen to promote. Surely you can see why I rarely can be bothered to give you a serious answer.

This is my last appeal to reason. If you bother me further, I'll just to you to fark off.

 

[monkers]

From the Good Law Project.

Content warning: suicide

Just before parliament was dissolved on 30 May, the health secretary Victoria Atkins introduced an immediate ban for trans young people using puberty blockers prescribed by regulated prescribers in France, Germany, Switzerland and throughout Europe.

The consequences are profound.

A medicine that young trans people have used for decades, that is lawfully prescribed throughout Europe, that is recommended by decades-old international treatment protocols, that cis people can continue to use, and the NHS can continue to prescribe to young trans people if they have already started, will no longer be available. In fact, it will become a criminal offence for those caught by the ban to possess it, punishable by up to two years in prison.

The Cass report has been widely criticised – by the trans community, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, by the Endocrine Society and by the American Academy of Pediatrics – for its conclusions. But even the Cass report contemplates continued use of puberty blockers to treat trans people.

The ban also bypassed the normal requirement for consulting a statutory committee to protect the public interest. And introducing it shortly before parliament rose meant that parliament could not scrutinise it either.

Its results are predictable – and terrifying.

We have heard from a well-placed whistleblower inside the NHS that, in the seven years before the decision in the Bell case (concerning the use of puberty blockers), one person using Gender Identity Development Services lost their life. The NHS reacted to that decision by introducing immediate, heavy restrictions to NHS services for young trans people. And it did not lift them when the decision was overturned in the Court of Appeal. We have been informed that in the three years following the decision 16 people lost their lives. We have contemporaneous evidence that this concern was raised at the time and the whistleblower believes senior management took a decision to suppress evidence of the deaths. We put these allegations to the Tavistock, we know it received them, but it has failed to respond.

This ban closes off the only route to treatment left open by the restrictions on treatment in the NHS. Atkins’s shockingly callous decision is likely to lead to further deaths of young trans people. We have received many emails from desperately worried parents.

Trans Actual CIC, working with Good Law Project, has instructed Russell-Cooke solicitors and senior barristers David Lock KC, Jason Coppel KC and Rob Harland to advise on a legal challenge to the regulations. So we’re taking the first formal step in urgent legal proceedings against Atkins.

 

[AndyRM]

What's this extreme body modification cult then? The made up thing for non binary people that Andy mentioned, or something that actually happens?

 

[monkers]

What's this extreme body modification cult then? The made up thing for non binary people that Andy mentioned, or something that actually happens?

I guess it has something to do with time when CXR Andy's 16 year old daughter made it past the electric fence, got the bus into town all on her own, and had her ears pierced.

 

[AndyRM]

I guess it has something to do with time when CXR Andy's 16 year old daughter made it past the electric fence, got the bus into town all on her own, and had her ears pierced.

Man, if she went to Claire's I can understand the concern. Using a gun to pierce ears is inhumane.

 

[icowden]

What's this extreme body modification cult then? The made up thing for non binary people that Andy mentioned, or something that actually happens?

It does exist. Warning this story is very graphic and unpleasant.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-extr...nuch-maker-to-have-his-penis-removed-13082333

 

[monkers]

It does exist. Warning this story is very graphic and unpleasant.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-extr...nuch-maker-to-have-his-penis-removed-13082333

Does it have any relevance to any threat to the safety of women from trans women?

The link doesn't open on my laptop - which is probably a blessing.

 

[AndyRM]

It does exist. Warning this story is very graphic and unpleasant.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-extr...nuch-maker-to-have-his-penis-removed-13082333

Oh that, yeah I'm aware but it has nothing to do with being transgender. When younger (and even after) I was pretty close to the extreme body modification scene. It's a seriously secretive subculture for a whole variety of reasons.

It wasn't what Andy had brought up as being all the rage for non binary peeps though.

 

[icowden]

Just before parliament was dissolved on 30 May, the health secretary Victoria Atkins introduced an immediate ban for trans young people using puberty blockers prescribed by regulated prescribers in France, Germany, Switzerland and throughout Europe.

That's not quite true. She banned private clinics from prescribing puberty blockers for 3 months. They had already been made unavailable on the NHS. It was a loophole closure. New prescriptions have also been paused in Scotland. CHildren who have been prescribed puberty blockers in the UK will continue to be able to receive them, but not if the prescription is from an EEA Doctor rather than a UK doctor.
It does not affect children receiving this treatment for other medical reasons, only for gender dysphoria. The drugs are only licensed for precocious puberty, so use for trans treatment was already controversial as they have not been tested for use in this way.

The ban also bypassed the normal requirement for consulting a statutory committee to protect the public interest. And introducing it shortly before parliament rose meant that parliament could not scrutinise it either.

Because it only lasts 3 months.

Its results are predictable – and terrifying.

No they aren't.

We have been informed that in the three years following the decision 16 people lost their lives.

As I am sure you are aware, correlation does not indicate causation. Unless there is direct evidence that 16 young people committed suicide solely because they were refused puberty blockers, I would take this assertion with a pinch of salt.

This ban closes off the only route to treatment left open by the restrictions on treatment in the NHS. Atkins’s shockingly callous decision is likely to lead to further deaths of young trans people. We have received many emails from desperately worried parents.

Again, this is a myth that has been debunked as far as I am aware. https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

Trans Actual CIC, working with Good Law Project, has instructed Russell-Cooke solicitors and senior barristers David Lock KC, Jason Coppel KC and Rob Harland to advise on a legal challenge to the regulations. So we’re taking the first formal step in urgent legal proceedings against Atkins.

I'm usually supportive of the Good Law Project, but I'm not convinced that this is actually good law. Also, by the time they get anywhere the "ban" will have lapsed and there will be a new Government in place, so it seems like it's a complete waste of time designed to fill lawyers pockets.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The government's lead advisor on suicide has asked people to stop promoting the 'puberty blockers or suicide' narrative and the 'Would you rather have a living daughter or a dead son?' line.

There is no evidence for it. It's irresponsible and puts the idea in children's heads that their mental distress can only be relieved by medicalisation. This isn't true and it's used to blackmail parents into going down the affirmation and puberty blocker path.


View: https://x.com/ProfLAppleby/status/1767962700389253267


This ghoulish recklessness is predictable from those who need the idea of 'trans children' to exist in order to validate adults. These are children in mental distress, most of whom will resolve their discomfort with time.

https://archive.is/2023.05.15-17220...nting/liberal-mother-daughter-came-out-trans/

Edit: Hillary Cass didn't find evidence that puberty blockers reduced the risk of suicide despite spending 4 years assessing every study on the subject.

Who to believe? The suicide expert and the paediatrics expert who spent 4 years looking at evidence or the tax lawyer?

 

[icowden]

Oh that, yeah I'm aware but it has nothing to do with being transgender. When younger (and even after) I was pretty close to the extreme body modification scene. It's a seriously secretive subculture for a whole variety of reasons.

It wasn't what Andy had brought up as being all the rage for non binary peeps though.

I think what he is getting at, is the correlation between the two groups in terms of dysmorphia and the consequences. If you cut off your genitals in a back street clinic you are looking at a significant prison sentence. If you do it to alleviate gender dysmorphia it's fine because it's the good kind of irreversible body modification.

 

[monkers]

Meanwhile however, it is now known that since the block on puberty blockers was lifted by the High Court appeal in the year BC (before Cass), the NHS continued the block.

As a consequence there is evidence that 16 trans kids have taken their own lives in the last 3 years. Prior to this there had been 1 suicide in 7 years.

Coroners had already writing to the relevant authorities with concern.

Puberty blockers have now been banned by the government using emergency powers after parliament was prorogued for the GE.

At least one coroner has written to Victoria Atkins to express concern.

 

[monkers]

Here's a flavour of what the GC brigade have achieved for the well-being of trans kids ... read the words of coroners ...

https://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/22...-security-level-crossing-teenager-takes-life/

https://www.inquest.org.uk/alexandra-greenway-closes

https://www.inquest.org.uk/ellis-murphy-richards-closes

https://www.inquest.org.uk/charlie-millers-inquest-concludes

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-future-deaths-report-2024-0195_Published.pdf

https://www.inquest.org.uk/armanih-lewis-daniel-inquest

https://www.judiciary.uk/prevention...-williams-prevention-of-future-deaths-report/

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-future-deaths-report-2023-0380_Published.pdf

https://www.inquest.org.uk/jason-pulman-inquest-concludes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-65624233

https://www.inquest.org.uk/max-sumner-inquest

https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/24228351.trans-teen-said-death-will-happy-afterlife/

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-future-deaths-report-2023-0503_Published.pdf

 

[icowden]

Here's a flavour of what the GC brigade have achieved for the well-being of trans kids ... read the words of coroners ...

Sorry - how have the GC brigade been instrumental in defunding Mental Health Services? I only looked at a few of the coroners reports but the primary recommendations / causes that came across were failure to provide adequate Mental Health Services and medical assessment to young people who already had significant mental instability and suicidal ideations, quite often linked with familial abuse.

 

[monkers]

If you don't wish to read them all, at least read the last one ...

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-future-deaths-report-2023-0503_Published.pdf

CORONER’S CONCERNS During the course of the investigation my inquiries revealed matters giving rise to concern. In my opinion there is a risk that future deaths could occur unless action is taken. In the circumstances it is my statutory duty to report to you. Regulation 28 – After Inquest Document Template Updated 30/07/2021

The MATTERS OF CONCERN are as follows

a) The knowledge and training for those in the mental health setting for managing and offering care to those in the transgender community. b) The delays in access to gender affirming healthcare. c) The lack of provision of mental health care for those waiting for gender affirming treatment. d) The lack of clarity for clinicians who are in place to support young transgender individuals in Primary Care e) The lack of clarity for clinicians who are in place to support young transgender individuals in the Mental Health Setting. 6 ACTION SHOULD BE TAKEN In my opinion action should be taken to prevent future deaths and I believe you (and/or your organisation) have the power to take such action.