Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

The objection is that they are still male regardless of having a certificate or not. That fact doesn't change with a piece of paper.
Women's spaces and services aren't rewards for men who have made an effort.

But you see, and have said repeatedly, that trans men should be accepted in mens areas without question.
Why the different treatment for women "who've made the effort"?

 

[AuroraSaab]

No, I haven't. You keep posting this stuff without quoting my posts or providing the receipts. It's just lying and it's becoming a bit tiresome.

Women who identify as men are women and are welcome in women's spaces. If you actually cared about transgender surely you would welcome them in men's spaces, seeing as they are of minimal risk to men in terms of violence etc. You never suggest that as a solution though.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If you're going to lie, Classic, you need to start providing some evidence because my posts say the opposite. Trans identifying women are welcome in the services appropriate to their sex. I can't consent on men's behalf as to whether they should use men's services and facilities - you obviously think they should so perhaps you should advocate that as your solution.

 

[classic33]

No, I haven't. You keep posting this stuff without quoting my posts or providing the receipts. It's just lying and it's becoming a bit tiresome.

Women who identify as men are women and are welcome in women's spaces. If you actually cared about transgender surely you would welcome them in men's spaces, seeing as they are of minimal risk to men in terms of violence etc. You never suggest that as a solution though.

It's exactly what you have done. As for quoting you, when done you've accused me of altering them, taking what you've said the wrong way.
You can always prove I'm wrong though, aside from accusations of lying. They get tiresome after a while.

As for your argument about a "special subset' of women, why should they be treated any different?
Your argument, but the other side.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No, I haven't. See above posts for proving you wrong.

I don't think there are subsets of sex. Transmen are women. They are welcome in women's spaces because they have a right to be there. It's you that's saying they should use provisions set up for men - I've simply said that such access is a decision for men to make. Given that the concerns seem asymmetrical, you could accept them in your spaces along with non conforming men if you like, but you don't seem to want to. I'm pretty tired of dealing with your strange and incomprehensible posts tbh.

 

[Bromptonaut]

The objection is that they are still male regardless of having a certificate or not. That fact doesn't change with a piece of paper.
Women's spaces and services aren't rewards for men who have made an effort.

No certificate is required (quite rightly) for those who identify as the opposite sex to have rights and protection just like other characteristics do.

Can you GC people at least try and see beyond the piece of paper bollox.

If they were just a piece of paper which any muppet can get there would be far more of them than there are.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Can you not see that from the perspective of women and girls it is irrelevant if the man in the bed opposite in hospital, or undressing next to us in the changing rooms, or sitting in our rape support meeting, or performing intimate care on our disabled daughter, has a certificate or not?

Hard or easy to get, it is just a piece of paper. In fact for years transactivists told us it was just admin. There are many reasons why relatively few GRCs are applied for.

Again though, you seem to be someone who thinks men should be rewarded for making a show of commitment.

 

[monkers]

Can you GC people at least try and see beyond the piece of paper bollox.

If they were just a piece of paper which any muppet can get there would be far more of them than there are.

Indeed qualifications that licence doctors to practice are ''just bits of paper''. MAGANDY rant ... ''You can get your finger out my arse now doc, I don't recognise your ludicrous bits of paper - I'll get the bin men to check my prostate for cancer next Friday when they come round''.

At least then he can get an on the spot second, third, and fourth opinions at the same time.

 

[monkers]

I claim no expertise, just basing my thoughts on mainstream press reports. I was thinking more of the situation in Scotland where excerpts of the requirements include https://www.gov.scot/publications/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-more-information/

But I do accept that reports I've seen might not present the full picture or might come from people with their own agendas so I've not spent lots of time researching.

Ian

Hey, it's fine. You wondered something out loud. I was happy to offer the information I have for you to consider.

 

[mickle]

That must win a prize for the most fatuous case attempt on Cycle Chat. Chose 4 terrible pictures and try to maintain these are the typical examples. You are destroying your own case here.

Ian

Transwomen dont owe you femininity, you bigot.

 

[Psamathe]

Transwomen dont owe you femininity, you bigot.

You might disagree with my response but personal insults are not a hood way to discuss an important issue.

Ian
nb I didn't suggest anybody owes me anything. You were trying to make a point through totally unrepresentative selection of images.

 

[monkers]

You might disagree with my response but personal insults are not a hood way to discuss an important issue.

Ian
nb I didn't suggest anybody owes me anything. You were trying to make a point through totally unrepresentative selection of images.

It's his usual MO. He has no sound argument whatsoever, just another bigot who posts propaganda.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You might disagree with my response but personal insults are not a hood way to discuss an important issue.

Ian
nb I didn't suggest anybody owes me anything. You were trying to make a point through totally unrepresentative selection of images.

Mickle was being sarcastic. When women say that these men (transwomen) look like men, and that's just one reason why they shouldn't be in women's spaces, the common trans response is 'Transwomen don't owe you femininity', ie however male looking these men are they must be accepted as women. It blows your belief that men who make an effort should be rewarded out of the water.

There's been a few pro trans celebrities wearing Protect the Dolls (ie transwomen)
t shirts this week. I suggest you go over to X and put #ProtectTheDolls into the search to get an idea of who they are talking about.

Like many men who know very little about what has been going on you are part of the Be Kind crew. You think you are being reasonable when you ask women to move over, give up their stuff, and become a subset of their own sex. You are naive in the extreme and your belief that women should give these men access out of kindness comes at no cost to you but huge cost to them.

 

[Psamathe]

You are naive in the extreme and ...

Why do people feel the need to be personally insulting. First this Mickkle character, now you.

Unnecessary and to me says a lot.

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

He wasn't insulting you. The fact that you don't understand why what he said wasn't an insult to you but a sarcastic parroting of transwomen's replies to women shows that you aren't really up to speed on the debate about women's rights.

I find it very insulting that you think that if men have made an effort to look like women then that should somehow count for something.
It doesn't, because 'woman' is not a costume.
A man who has made an effort to look feminine is no more a woman than a woman who has made no effort is 'not a woman'.