Gender again. Sorry!

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

monkers

Shaman
Given that none of those things - the diagnosis, the hormones, the name change - are necessary to be regarded as transgender (except by you it seems) they are irrelevant. There's still no discernible difference between a man with those things and any other man. The level of commitment is irrelevant - their sex remains male.

Dr Upton doesn't have a GRC by the way. It's not the presence of a transwoman either, it's the presence of a male that's the issue.

Dr Upton wasn't pretending to be anyone. Her status was familiar to her colleagues. She hadn't progressed to having a GRC, but I know that you know the difficulty there - there's at least a seven year waiting list.

No evidence was presented that Beth Upton was acting anything other than professionally. It is quite wrong to suggest that she is a predator. The judge has made the call here, Peggie was harassing Upton contrary to the Equality Act.

As for the Supreme Court ruling, it was a matter of technical argument of statutory draftsmanship rather than one based on any philosophical nature of ''who or what a woman is''. The UKSC made no legal definition of sex.
 

AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
Nobody has claimed Upton is a predator, only that he is a male. Which he is, and which is why women's spaces are not for him.

The judge made no such finding but I'll wait for the appeal rather than listen to more spin from the forum's imaginary Rumpole.
 

monkers

Shaman
The full judgement runs to over 300 pages. I've yet to get to first base

Mrs Peggie seems to me to have lost except on a few points to do with how the employer handled the matter.

The evidence of Dr Upton, in regard to the key incident, was preferred to that of Mrs Peggie.

Same here. I currently don't have the time to read the whole judgment - still house hunting. However the quote I posted earlier is from the BBC.
 

CXRAndy

Pharaoh
When establishments dont respect female only places, more incidents of male predatory behaviour can flourish.

If you dont support female only facilities, I can only make my judgement off your response
 
It isn't darts. The truth might be a game of 301 to you. There is one way to the truth, and that is to tell it.
Maybe you don't know that expression or i quoted it wrong, but it means you can say just about everything with statistics.
What? It's a mathematical point. If you put things in the wrong groups, cohorts, or classes, then you've messed up.
a mathematical point that's only reached by putting ''things'' into groups. i don't disagree with calling the goverment ''messed up'' but thats what you effectively do.

Fifty fifty doesn't mean fifty. It means half and half. It's a ratio. You're forgiven, your English is way better than my Dutch. About 8500 to 9000 GRCs have been issued. It used to be the case that there were more male to female transitions, but that changed. The prison data is not extrapolated for risk assessment purposes solely within the prison, it also indicates crime level outside of prison in the general population.
Which is missing the point, my point is notwhether it is a 1:1 ratio 1:1000 or 1:5 my point is the rules, regulations, laws should be clear now and not be played down
It is not the fault of women that men have a long history of presenting as women to commit the full range of crimes to avoid detection or evade capture.
Agreed
Neither is it the fault of trans women if men present as trans women to do the same. Maybe men don't feel they need to try so hard to disguise themselves as a trans woman especially if they are tall?
Agreed but that doesn't mean there can't be extra measurements taken especially like we where discussing in the prison system, why not have a trans only wing/department whatever it may be called. Do you think it's fair biological born women should face that same risk or fear you describe above? and no that's not me saying it's a rational fear, but fear doesn't have to be rational to be valid.

What this means is that both women and trans women are vulnerable to predatory men.
Gender doesn't really matter to the real monsters but yes that is indeed the case.


If you trouble to read the judgment issued in the Marie Kelly vs Leonardo case, and the Sandie Peggie case, you see that in both cases, the rulings makes clear that the presence of a trans woman in women's spaces places such as toilets and changing rooms women at increased risk from trans women. It is clear that both are under increased risk from men.

In the Kelly case the judge found no detriment was caused.
yes but this is not an very interesting court case just as the one below, it's about women not feeling safe because of a trans person.
The more interesting case would be where the transperson is abusive because he is not actually trans but uses it as an tool to get closer to women.
again dedicated trans toilets/changing rooms etc. would solve that.

In the Peggie case, the judge found that Peggie harassed Upton, so a reverse judgment was found.



The judge makes clear that nurse Sandie Peggie harassed Dr Upton, not the other way around as she had claimed.
Well if you read the whole judgement then the conclusion is Upton was/is not a very nice person, not before transitioning and not after, the way Peggie responded however lead to said reverse judgement. But i think there are too much individual circumstances to compare it to anything else.
 

CXRAndy

Pharaoh
So pleased more sports women are speaking out against TiMs playing in their sport.

Even young girls are now standing up for their rights

1000028688.jpg
 

AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
I'd best get on to my local council, because their mixed changing rooms are a magnet for predators.
Are aliens involved too?
That would be the crossover which nobody needs.

Andy continuing to dismiss and mock the sexual assault of women and girls, and the usual men on here approving, is no surprise.

https://archive.ph/uHFKs

"One teenage girl who was sexually assaulted by a man in a swimming pool while she was showering said: “I was crying myself to sleep and walking to school with puffy eyes.
“I suffered vivid nightmares, those same scenes playing on repeat in my head. I had countless panic attacks. I was constantly battling my own thoughts. To this day, the smell of chlorine makes my muscles tense.”
A woman who was a victim of mobile phone voyeurism said: “I wasn’t going to tell anyone. What’s the point? Nothing will be done about it.”

This is who you mock, Andy. When similar happens to your own children be sure to laugh it off, won't you.

Single sex services and facilities would prevent most of these incidents.
 

CXRAndy

Pharaoh
Who is it who is supporting child mutilation?

Also anyone using Jordan Peterson as any kind of authority is a f*ckwit.

Can't argue the stats though

Anyone who aligns with kids taking puberty blockers, hormone therapy, surgery, by cutting off healthy body parts. When it's clear these kids are suffering from many other issues, generally caused by their parents
 
Top Bottom