CXRAndy
Epic Member
View: https://x.com/i/status/2025154581064229357
Only 50 you say. You could argue the government murdered 2500 old people due to withdrawing WFA
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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View: https://x.com/i/status/2025154581064229357
Only 50 you say. You could argue the government murdered 2500 old people due to withdrawing WFA
monkers
Shaman
CXRAndy
Epic Member
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
Letter to The Times from 24 consultant psychiatrists, asking that the government follow up on the Gids patients who have already been through the system to see how those children fared. That will give us more information that the proposed flawed study and doesn't risk harming additional children.
CXRAndy
Epic Member
monkers
Shaman
This sounds half way sensible. However for them to use the phrase ''more information'' in the context of what they request is misleading.
They are requesting an alternative source of information that is known not to exist - this was always the problem. What they are requesting is what should always have been done and never resourced.
These people never have argued in favour of providing correct level resourcing - now they hide their prior disregard for support of trans health care behind this letter.
CXRAndy
Epic Member
Twaddle.
Find these experimental patient who went through Tavistock. Follow up with interviews, physical examinations.
This will confirm whether pumping children full of counter hormones is detrimental to health and mental wellbeing.
No need to have a second batch of experiments on further children.
There has been enough damage done to enough children already
Find these experimental patient who went through Tavistock. Follow up with interviews, physical examinations.
This will confirm whether pumping children full of counter hormones is detrimental to health and mental wellbeing.
No need to have a second batch of experiments on further children.
There has been enough damage done to enough children already
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
The Tavistock made zero attempts to follow up on patients to see if their protocols of affirmation only and use of puberty blockers had a positive outcome. It was due to a deliberate lack of curiosity on their part, nothing to do with lacking funds.
The clinic leaders were zealots; so convinced they were right they never bothered to see how these children fared once they were discharged. Any staff who did raise the issue were punished. The failings were ideological not financial.
The clinic leaders were zealots; so convinced they were right they never bothered to see how these children fared once they were discharged. Any staff who did raise the issue were punished. The failings were ideological not financial.
monkers
Shaman
Neither of us should be surprised that we disagree. I tend to look at the evidence, you tend to look at whatever fits the narrative of gender critical ideology.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
The evidence is there was no follow up of the 9000 children who went through the Tavistock. At any point there could have been an attempt to find out but they were too busy transing gay kids to ask 'How are the ones we already saw doing now?'.
monkers
Shaman
We should manage to agree here. If there is evidence of no follow up, why is there a letter asking for evidence to be evaluated for ''more information''. Do they not believe that there is little or no evidence? This does not make sense.
The whole sorry saga is a question of structure not ideology. The structure lacks integration. The very idea that a person could smoothly transition from child to adult services is for the birds. The structure itself made bone mineral density monitoring very difficult to achieve.
I just need to think about my experience of transition and compare that with the NHS system. The structural deficiencies were such that I could never have achieved a satisfactory outcome. Had I managed to get a first appointment and puberty blockers at age 14, a BMD would have given me a pre-puberty baseline, which even if access to pbs was for 2 years, would have created a gap before accessing cross sex hormones at 18. Monitoring between the ages of 14 to 16 would unlikely show a measurable gap since any effects are considered to be in the longer term. Access to adult services starts a new waiting list which rather than the 18 weeks guidelines can be 21 years.
Putting myself in the shoes of a sixteen year transitioner at that time, how would I be feeling? I'd had pbs for two years. My certainty of self was unchanged. I could not progress to cross sex hormones for another two years. I would be discharged by Tavistock. I'd have to join a new list and wait for years. My bone mineral density would not be measured. What incentive is there for the young person to continue in the programme? There is none.
I can only be thankful that private practice kept me away from these harms.
So the questions relate to structure and resource rather than ideology. The structure was not clinically driven in the first place. The fault lies with the NHS
''Transing kids'' is obvious nonsense. It always was an application process - not recruitment.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
The evidence available as of now is the NHS records of the patients they already saw. The Tavistock chose not to have a system of follow ups such as surveys, interviews, psychological evaluations, medical updates, with the children they discharged once they'd given them their prescriptions. It would have been far better to have an ongoing assessment of how those children given puberty blockers were faring but that chance is long gone.
That is not what Cass said. It is not what journalists such as Hannah Barnes discovered. Clinicians were so enamoured of the Dutch protocol and so convinced they were doing the right thing they didn't stop to think that they should be measuring the outcomes. Plus groups like Mermaids were allowed input into the clinic, bypassing GP's. Questioning became unacceptable. It was a clinic based on ideology.
As with sports and prisons though, there is no evidence that cannot be dismissed by trans activists because ultimately it's a house of cards that requires everyone to ignore the most obvious of conclusions.
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classic33
Missen
One name that I do know on that list, Dr Aileen O'brien, a honorary Consultant Psychiatrist.
https://profiles.sgul.ac.uk/aileen-obrien
CXRAndy
Epic Member
Why would they want to keep records.
The horrific life long complications should not be exposed to the public.
There are multiple who have de transitioned, commenting on problems physically that they were never made aware of.
Medically doctors and clinicians know of recorded side effects from taking certain drugs from the drug makers.
Why would the trans community want to publish these, detrimental to their cause
The horrific life long complications should not be exposed to the public.
There are multiple who have de transitioned, commenting on problems physically that they were never made aware of.
Medically doctors and clinicians know of recorded side effects from taking certain drugs from the drug makers.
Why would the trans community want to publish these, detrimental to their cause
