Israel / Palestine

[C R]

In the context of other western leaders though, Canada France and the UK are the first to stick their neck out. I'd rather that than hide in the crowd.

Norway, Ireland and Spain were first by recognising the Palestinian state. As said above, late and toothless.

 

[Ian H]

How do we say this guy's name?? I thought it was 4 sylybubs, like this (from google):


... but some expert-with-gravitas (possibly from the Middle East himself) on R4 last night seemed to combine the last two, so more like:
neh-tuhn-yow

I think it's pronounced gen'ocid'al bas'tard.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

How do we say this guy's name?

It’s Mileikowsky.

 

[matticus]

It’s Mileikowsky.

Whoosh!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Whoosh!

Swish!

 

[monkers]

The Storyline is a long and very complex one. Where was the pivotal point that tended to make you favour the State of Israel, was start of the ideology of Zionism, when the Jewish settlers arrived perhaps, or maybe some other point?

Dutch Guy

None of those.

That really isn't an answer to the question. Let's try again.

In land / border / territory disputes, to which people(s) does land belong, the native people or invaders and settlers, or neither, or both?

I'm guessing that you'll agree that Jewish attitudes are centred around the contents of their holy scriptures, which one might reasonably argue are more ancient than Islam.

As long as both sides argue that the whole of Palestine belongs them by dint of scripture, then I guess the Jewish argument is the stronger in terms of age.

But is it the right question or the only question? What if the determination of who belongs to the land is framed some other way?

 

[Psamathe]

I'm guessing that you'll agree that Jewish attitudes are centred around the contents of their holy scriptures

I would be dismissing any religious claim from Israel because what religion is there in the world that would endorse such killing of innocent civilians, what religion find causing mass starvation an acceptable practice, etc.

Even Israeli settler behavious in the West Bank, what religion would find the killings of innocent Palestinians acceptable.

Ian

 

[monkers]

I would be dismissing any religious claim from Israel because what religion is there in the world that would endorse such killing of innocent civilians, what religion find causing mass starvation an acceptable practice, etc.

Even Israeli settler behavious in the West Bank, what religion would find the killings of innocent Palestinians acceptable.

Ian

Thank you for the reply. I was hoping to coax Dutch Guy into some fresh perspectives. It seems clear, at least to me, that there is no settlement that is easily arrived at to settle this. Both have entrenched views.

This is too easily framed as a Jewish vs Islam dichotomy. The further problem in terms of international considerations is that the land is recognised at the United Nations as being the State of Israel rather than Palestine. This alone is sufficient for settlers to believe the land has officially been turned over to them.

No analogy is perfect, and any can be easily dismissed at some level; however the troubles and struggles on the island of Ireland should provide a model of resolution where the differences were just as political as religious. But that resolution took years, and the Palestinian people are running out of time.

Is it time for the member states of the United Nations to end the status of Israel as a recognised country and instead recognise that land as Palestine, before bringing the Israeli government back to the table?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I was hoping to coax Dutch Guy into some fresh perspectives.

I admire your optimism. You may remember the contortions he got himself into six months ago when I asked him this question:

Hey @dutchguylivingintheuk , do you agree that Israel is an occupier in Gaza and the West Bank?

He very nearly disappeared up his own ärse.