Israel / Palestine

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Perhaps it needs to be said that terrorist acts don't occur in isolation. There is always a political motivation behind them.

Jup to get more or full autonomy over an certain area/land etc. (like the Ira)
To submit local population and whatever land to get their hands on to an extreme version of Religion killing everything and everyone who doesn't agree (for example Isis0

And than there is Hamas, came to power with false promises, false help and false charity status has infultraded many western political organizations and NGO's to gain influence all the while enabled by many fractions (yes including Isreal) all while using civilians as less then slaves unless they join the ranks of Hamas which is a drugs kartel disguised as a freedom movement.
Worth nothing that the true Palestinian freedom fighting movement the PLO has been largely killed off by Hamas. After branded ''weak'' when they agreed with the peace deal of the early 2000's. (they never came to be because of Rabin's assassination )

The rumored two state plan they have now sounds good, and a clear indication of that is that Isreal doesn't like it. It's wordt nothing however that an organisation like Hamas isn't stopped by just an agreement, more needs to be done to effectively stop them. Otherwise it would just turn into a Palestinian state that is effectively the same as Gaza now, on paper on the PA authority's control in reality ruled by drugslords disguised as terrorist.

 

[Psamathe]

Do you think he has been taking negotiation lessons from Trump? 😂

Certainly looks like he needed Trump's permission.

Ian

 

[Psamathe]

Can't see many of these UK requests being met by either side.

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Whilst I'm glad Starmer has sort of suggested he might recognise Palestine, he's made a complete dogs breakfast of it.

Recognising Palestine if far more that addressing immediate actions and conditions in Gaza. Starmer in setting conditions is almost using it as a punishment sort of "unless you do what I say I'm going to do something your don't want". That's not atall appropriate to recognising a State.

Starmer has not set black and white conditions. So Israel starts letting in not enough aid have they or have they not met Starmer's aid condition? Answer will depend on whether Starmer wants to recognise Palestine of not - he can start "Israel is not letting in aid" (ignoring the "not enough".

Hamas releasing the hostages is a specific action and Starmer hasn't made is a condition for recognising Palestine (my understanding).

Israel letting in aid to feed people people starving because they blocked any food getting in is not something they should be rewarded for. It's an atrocity and those responsible need to be help to account.

Starmer has actually created himself a Catch 22 situation. BBC reporting Starmer's conditions as "The PM said Israel must also meet other conditions, including agreeing to a ceasefire, committing to a long-term sustainable peace that delivers a two-state solution" (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpdjvn1eeplo) so Catch 22 is we're going to recognise State of Palestine unless you accept 2-state solution and 2-state solution means a State of Pelestine ... so State of Palestine recognised either way!

etc.

Cynic in me actually thinks Starmer is at least in part addressing Labour Party management. More and more Labour MPs are calling for UK to recognise Palestinian state and it's recent that Starmer has experience of Labour MPs disagreeing with him so this is (in part) shutting down his backbench MPs hence him leaving ways he can weasel out of the commitment nearer the time.

Ian

 

[C R]

Whilst I'm glad Starmer has sort of suggested he might recognise Palestine, he's made a complete dogs breakfast of it.

Recognising Palestine if far more that addressing immediate actions and conditions in Gaza. Starmer in setting conditions is almost using it as a punishment sort of "unless you do what I say I'm going to do something your don't want". That's not atall appropriate to recognising a State.

Starmer has not set black and white conditions. So Israel starts letting in not enough aid have they or have they not met Starmer's aid condition? Answer will depend on whether Starmer wants to recognise Palestine of not - he can start "Israel is not letting in aid" (ignoring the "not enough".

Hamas releasing the hostages is a specific action and Starmer hasn't made is a condition for recognising Palestine (my understanding).

Israel letting in aid to feed people people starving because they blocked any food getting in is not something they should be rewarded for. It's an atrocity and those responsible need to be help to account.

Starmer has actually created himself a Catch 22 situation. BBC reporting Starmer's conditions as "The PM said Israel must also meet other conditions, including agreeing to a ceasefire, committing to a long-term sustainable peace that delivers a two-state solution" (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpdjvn1eeplo) so Catch 22 is we're going to recognise State of Palestine unless you accept 2-state solution and 2-state solution means a State of Pelestine ... so State of Palestine recognised either way!

etc.

Cynic in me actually thinks Starmer is at least in part addressing Labour Party management. More and more Labour MPs are calling for UK to recognise Palestinian state and it's recent that Starmer has experience of Labour MPs disagreeing with him so this is (in part) shutting down his backbench MPs hence him leaving ways he can weasel out of the commitment nearer the time.

Ian

Yes, pretend he is listening knowing full well he will do the opposite. Starmer is hell bent on beating Blair on the infamy stakes.

 

[CXRAndy]

You want to bounce the world into accepting these animals

France has halted all evacuations from Gaza as of August 1, 2025, pending an investigation into a Palestinian student accused of reposting antisemitic content online. French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot announced that no evacuations will take place until the investigation is concluded, and all Gazans who have entered France will undergo renewed screening

 

[MadMalx]

Daughter (27), would probably get voted ‘least likely to break the law’, managed to get arrested yesterday at a demo in oxford st., along with about 50 others. Spent 18h in the cells before being released on bail while they check video footage. Her version is police prevented them from dispersing when told to do so then corralled a group and arrested the lot. She says the police she encountered were all a bit embarrassed about the arrests rather than dispersing but that was their instructions.
One of the most disturbing aspects for me is that 50 or so arrests is almost invisible - no news reports (I’m talking about Friday, not whatever might happen this weekend), almost nothing I can find on social media. I’m not usually tinfoil hat, but I’m struggling to think anything other than there is active suppression of reporting.

 

[C R]

Daughter (27), would probably get voted ‘least likely to break the law’, managed to get arrested yesterday at a demo in oxford st., along with about 50 others. Spent 18h in the cells before being released on bail while they check video footage. Her version is police prevented them from dispersing when told to do so then corralled a group and arrested the lot. She says the police she encountered were all a bit embarrassed about the arrests rather than dispersing but that was their instructions.
One of the most disturbing aspects for me is that 50 or so arrests is almost invisible - no news reports (I’m talking about Friday, not whatever might happen this weekend), almost nothing I can find on social media. I’m not usually tinfoil hat, but I’m struggling to think anything other than there is active suppression of reporting.

Kettling making a come back?

ETA Kudos and respect to your daughter for taking a stand.

 

[CXRAndy]

Welcome to Labour's UK 2025.

Sorry for your daughters experience, but it's becoming the norm as Labour tries to suppress discussion on-line

It will fail ultimately as VPN and certain social platforms won't comply

 

[AndyRM]

Labour aren't "suppressing" online conversation online, that's a fanciful notion you've been fed and fallen for, and there's usually a damn good reason for asking the public not to discuss active cases/speculate wildly on social media...

What is of genuine concern is @MadMalx's daughter getting lifted like that. And especially to have been released pending investigation - you can expect that to take around 3 months before you find out if it's going anywhere by the way.

 

[MadMalx]

What is of genuine concern is @MadMalx's daughter getting lifted like that. And especially to have been released pending investigation - you can expect that to take around 3 months before you find out if it's going anywhere by the way.

Indeed, and meanwhile her bail forbids her from entering Westminster Borough - which is a bit of a problem for someone living and working very close to the borough boundary. Is looking to appeal, but if police reject the appeal it has to go to court to be overturned.

 

[AndyRM]

Indeed, and meanwhile her bail forbids her from entering Westminster Borough - which is a bit of a problem for someone living and working very close to the borough boundary. Is looking to appeal, but if police reject the appeal it has to go to court to be overturned.

Wow, that's incredibly harsh. I hope things work out for your family. From what you've said this is a first offence (and it sounds like a tenuous one at that) so I'd be surprised if anything other than a caution was the outcome.

My most ridiculous brush with the law came as a result of sending a "malicious communication" to my boyfriend at the time. We were sharing what was clearly a joke, and yes it was daft to have shared this joke via a work e-mail address, but it was even dafter for my employer to report it to the police without even attempting to discuss it with me first. I ended up on a final written warning from the place (who were making me redundant about a month afterwards anyway) and they got a serious dressing down from Northumbria's finest, as well as a fine for wasting police time.