Israel / Palestine

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Ian H

Squire
The current situation does not exist in isolation. Everything stems from something.
The current situation is that Israel wants to eradicate Palestine.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that too. But up to this point, and historically since not long after the Israeli state was founded, an apartheid system has been in place there. Now that Trump is in power and whatever restraints the US imposed have gone, the Israelis think they can move on from what they see as an unsatisfactory situation and simply wipe the Palestinians off the map.
 

C R

Guru
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that too. But up to this point, and historically since not long after the Israeli state was founded, an apartheid system has been in place there. Now that Trump is in power and whatever restraints the US imposed have gone, the Israelis think they can move on from what they see as an unsatisfactory situation and simply wipe the Palestinians off the map.

I think you are both saying the same thing and splitting a very thin hair.
 

Psamathe

Veteran
BBC reporting last night it was Israeli F-35 fighters that carried out the Qatar attack.

UK is still selling/exporting F-35 parts to Israel (last I heard). So did our F-35 parts take a bombing trip to Qatar guided by Israeli pilots?

Time UK grew a moral backbone and started doing something beyond self-interest and trying to avoid upsetting "allies" ("allies" who don't take the principle reciprocally).
 

Psamathe

Veteran
Qatar gave Trump a $400million plane to use as a personal jet.
Then Trump apparently approved or was aware of the Qatar hit job.
That’s some way to make friends.
Stories different people are saying are "inconsistent" ie some arelikely lying to cover what they did (or didn't) do. Whilst I have no expertise in such considerations, some who do have been saying (on reputable TV News) that the US must have know about the Israeli strike on Qatar in advance or the US base in Qatar would have scrambled and air defences shot down the Israeli planes. Bomber aircraft fast approaching the country/massive US airbase would not have been ignored, but US just sat there as the Israeli bombers flew in.

So US apparently must have known in plenty of time in advance that the bombers approaching their massive US airbase in Qatar were "friendlies" coming to attack their host ally country so they stood down (or never stood-up) and just watched their ally being attacked without even warning them until after it had all happened.

And Netanyahu digs himself a deeper hole
Qatar responded
“Netanyahu is fully aware that the hosting of the Hamas office took place within the framework of Qatar’s mediation efforts requested by the United States and Israel,” the Qatari foreign ministry said in a statement.

“The negotiations were always held in an official and transparent manner, with international support and in the presence of US and Israeli delegations. Netanyahu’s insinuation that Qatar secretly harbored the Hamas delegation is a desperate attempt to justify a crime condemned by the entire world.”
(from https://www.timesofisrael.com/netan...or-bring-them-to-justice-if-you-dont-we-will/)
And
In response, Sheikh Mohammed [Qatar's prime minister] told CNN that it was Netanyahu who "needs to be brought to justice".

"He's the one who's wanted at the [International Criminal Court]."
(from https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crme74p9gn2o)
 

Psamathe

Veteran
Qatar gave Trump a $400million plane to use as a personal jet.
Then Trump apparently approved or was aware of the Qatar hit job.
That’s some way to make friends.
He's got his gift and they were never going to give him another.

That said, has it actually been delivered yet? or are never ending "technical issues" going to ge keeping it grounded forever more.

Like we (UK) were too stupid to perpetually slip the royal visit into infinity due to illness/diary conflicts/bad weather/etc.
 
Not that this is any surprise, but even so...

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Pblakeney

Über Member
He's got his gift and they were never going to give him another.

That said, has it actually been delivered yet? or are never ending "technical issues" going to ge keeping it grounded forever more.

Like we (UK) were too stupid to perpetually slip the royal visit into infinity due to illness/diary conflicts/bad weather/etc.

IIRC (and I may well be wrong) but the plane was delivered and is currently being outfitted for Donald's personal use and no doubt "taste".
All at U.S. tax payers expense, natch.
 
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I tried to give your post some sensible thought but when you wrote that nonsense about there being no war pre October 7, I rolled my eyes and gave up.

prove me wrong then? It says so in UN's own reports, yes buried away, yes covoered by bullshite-lingo but nonetheless the human suffering in Gaza is long before 7 october and apart from Blaming Isreal it is in fact setup by Hamas, by the very leaders who thought they where safe in Qatar..
And yes, I know a couple of guys in clubs, neither of whom are stupid enough to publicise their extra curricular activities all over social media, and probably wouldn't want to get involved with a government contract in any case.

So not the same type of motorclub as the one linked here is it?

I assume from this you'll extrapolate some wild fantasy about how that means I'm a terrorist sympathiser or something. Have fun with that.
nah

Can it really be called a war in the usual sense?
let me fix that: War is an armed conflict between the armed forces of states, or between governmental forces and armed groups that are organized under a certain command structure and have the capacity to sustain military operations, or between such organized groups. (Wikipedia)
so the answer is yes


War makes me think of two sets of two countries with armies, navies and air forces battling it out.
That’s not happening here.
With Nothern Ireland being relatively close one and their war ended a relatively short time ago i would expect you wouldn't have such narrow views on the definition of war..
Israel is illegally occupying another country.
That country has no navy, no air force, no regular army.
The British Empire along with the international community created Isreal you may agree or disagree on how it went down, but it still the legal process of how we create countries and borders. So no that is not an illigal occupation, alltough there are indeed legitmate concerns about's Isreal land grabbaing amongst other things.

The resistance that fights back has only comparatively light weapons.
Hamas isn't resistance, is a combination off warlords that just as easily kills palestinians if it delivers them headlines they like then isreali's, they have nolong term goal other then keep Gazan's reliant on them.

Israel prevents medicine, food and water from reaching the country’s population.
Israel controls the border on three sides with a wall with AI machine guns.
It controls the sea with gunships.
It controls the air space.
.
So do many other countries including the uk we protect our borders for example from Russian ships, together with Nato, an if there would be an non-nato country in between they could be in the same position.
What you left out however is that time and time again so called aid boats/trucks/whatever where loaded with all kind of other things like weapons. And the UN could only do their job by bribing the terrorist resulting in large stockpiles of aid not reaching the poeple who need it. Just like Stalin it suits Hamas better to keep Gazan's Hungry.


It has bombed all hospitals, schools, places of worship, uses snipers to murder people queuing for food.
Yeah i remember a few years back the UNRWA crying in all media how isreal bombed their school only for them to admit in a very small footnote aout 5 years later that their school was used as ammunition storage.

Israeli drone operators bomb children collecting water.
Israeli navy shoots people who try to fish in the sea, desperate for food..
very wrong if really happened like you claim it does. (what some sources say happened and what actually happens are two different things.)


It has now razed almost the entire country and plans to do so completely.

That’s not war, it’s massacre.
It’s war crimes.

It’s genocide.
and yet the official death count only barely hits the 100k(not even i think) not to diminish those numbers but Gaza has an estimated population off 2 million and reports left and right imply that in between 40 up to 72% of those official death are actually Hamas fighters.

How long did it take Hitler to exterminate 2 millions jews? (and yes i know the total killed jews in the 2nd world war is much higher) which is why i think that ''genocide'' word is very very off in this case.
 
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