Israel / Palestine

[AuroraSaab]

I was pointing out that Hamas also lay a divine, exclusive claim to Israel on behalf of Muslims. You said they don't. Hardly whataboutery.
At some point religious nuts like Netanyahu and Hamas will no longer be in charge and some sensible leaders will be along to negotiate a 2 state solution that both sides can, probably uncomfortably, live with.

 

[PurplePenguin]

This is from the same school of theological thinking that claims Jesus as a Muslim prophet despite him predating Islam by centuries.

I'm happy to poke fun at religious contradictions, but this one seems fine to me.

 

[laurentian]

This is from the same school of theological thinking that claims Jesus as a Muslim prophet despite him predating Islam by centuries.

Jesus is a prophet in Islam and it's kind of a prerequisite of a prophet that they pre-date the event they are prophesying . . .

 

[AuroraSaab]

The commonly held claim is that he was both a Muslim and a prophet. Google it. All the Biblical figures in the Quran are considered to have been Muslims.

The reason they call these figures (Noah, Moses, Jesus etc) Muslims and prophets is so that it gives weight to the idea of Muhammed as the last in a long line of prophets, not a stand alone figure, and as other faiths being the precursor to Islam - Muhammed and Islam being the ultimate in God's revelation, after which no further teaching or messenger was necessary. Hence the Bible figures in the Quran are deemed to have been Muslims from the get go. If they weren't Muslim they wouldn't be in the Quran.

(Interestingly, you could almost say the same about the link drawn between Jesus and the idea of messiahship in the OT)

 

[Ian H]

I was pointing out that Hamas also lay a divine, exclusive claim to Israel on behalf of Muslims. You said they don't. Hardly whataboutery.
At some point religious nuts like Netanyahu and Hamas will no longer be in charge and some sensible leaders will be along to negotiate a 2 state solution that both sides can, probably uncomfortably, live with.

They used to.

 

[Pinno718]

I was pointing out that Hamas also lay a divine, exclusive claim to Israel on behalf of Muslims. You said they don't. Hardly whataboutery.
At some point religious nuts like Netanyahu and Hamas will no longer be in charge and some sensible leaders will be along to negotiate a 2 state solution that both sides can, probably uncomfortably, live with.

Whilst we wait for these replacements, thousands die and thousands are displaced.

 

[Psamathe]

They used to.

Long time ago mid Israel flattening Gaza C4 interviewed one of the Israeli peace negotiating team from previous talks and he was saying how Hamas used to have such claims but dropped them. Bit like US requiring regime change in Iran and when it comes to peace stances move and compromise, etc.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Whilst we wait for these replacements, thousands die and thousands are displaced.

And thousands off other killed before that, or are you conveniently leaving out 7 October? Powered by Iran. (just to put their "US has no business bombing us claims in perspective)

Long time ago mid Israel flattening Gaza C4 interviewed one of the Israeli peace negotiating team from previous talks and he was saying how Hamas used to have such claims but dropped them. Bit like US requiring regime change in Iran and when it comes to peace stances move and compromise, etc.

Yeah Iran also said they didn't really want to make Nuclear weapons.(and made many deals which they all ignored/broke/breached) yet when the IAEA asked "can we check bro?" they where refused entry, it Took Trumps hero complex, to probably know in a few years time they again lied and still trying to make that weapon. (and no, i don't think America or any other country should have nuclear weapons, but i do think a country like Iran is far more dangerous with such a weapon)

 

[AndyRM]

And thousands off other killed before that, or are you conveniently leaving out 7 October? Powered by Iran. (just to put their "US has no business bombing us claims in perspective)



Yeah Iran also said they didn't really want to make Nuclear weapons.(and made many deals which they all ignored/broke/breached) yet when the IAEA asked "can we check bro?" they where refused entry, it Took Trumps hero complex, to probably know in a few years time they again lied and still trying to make that weapon. (and no, i don't think America or any other country should have nuclear weapons, but i do think a country like Iran is far more dangerous with such a weapon)

You think Iran is more dangerous than the USA?

The USA which are the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons?

And are currently run by a cabal of dangerous weirdos?

That USA?

 

[Ian H]

The end of an article about Israel in the Guardian
In Rehovot, Dahlia Perez, 55, said last week’s events had taught her that “peace will never come”.
“I was hoping for an end to wars but I think we are always going to have to live by our swords,” she said. “We understand now that we have no friends and we cannot trust anyone.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ayed-angry-after-iran-peace-deal-donald-trump

 

[All uphill]

The end of an article about Israel in the Guardian
In Rehovot, Dahlia Perez, 55, said last week’s events had taught her that “peace will never come”.
“I was hoping for an end to wars but I think we are always going to have to live by our swords,” she said. “We understand now that we have no friends and we cannot trust anyone.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ayed-angry-after-iran-peace-deal-donald-trump

I can hear a voice from long ago:

"If you don't play nicely you won't have any friends"

 

[Psamathe]

The end of an article about Israel in the Guardian
In Rehovot, Dahlia Perez, 55, said last week’s events had taught her that “peace will never come”.
“I was hoping for an end to wars but I think we are always going to have to live by our swords,” she said. “We understand now that we have no friends and we cannot trust anyone.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ayed-angry-after-iran-peace-deal-donald-trump

From that article

“We were betrayed by President Trump,” said Avi Perez, 55

Did they miss Zelenskyy's 1st visit to Trũmp at the White House? Have they not noticed how Trúmp is treating other allies, even threatening to invade their territories, etc.

“We understand now that we have no friends and we cannot trust anyone.”

Maybe they might ask themselves why. Maybe rest of world thinks human rights a "good idea", how International Law is more than something applying only to others, how imprisonment without trial is not they way a society should operate, etc.. Maybe look at how other human beings are treated ...

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

You think Iran is more dangerous than the USA?

yes, keyword being more here

The USA which are the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons?

And are currently run by a cabal of dangerous weirdos?

That USA?

Jup that USA agreed currently it looks a bit like a weird statement having the weirdo leading it right now. But Iran has had weirdos at the helm for nearly 50 years now. Ignoring basic human rights, secretly invading many countries with proxy forces etc. etc.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

From that article

Did they miss Zelenskyy's 1st visit to Trũmp at the White House? Have they not noticed how Trúmp is treating other allies, even threatening to invade their territories, etc.

That and in addition bit rich to say you can't trust the US when they breached/broke/did not comply with the deals the US made with them earlier on.(the Obama deal amongst others.)

Maybe they might ask themselves why. Maybe rest of world thinks human rights a "good idea", how International Law is more than something applying only to others, how imprisonment without trial is not they way a society should operate, etc.. Maybe look at how other human beings are treated ...

No one can trust them is the better conclusion but they seem to have some problems reflecting on their own actions.

 

[All uphill]

No one can trust them is the better conclusion but they seem to have some problems reflecting on their own actions.

That applies to all parties in this mess, doesn't it?

USA bombing while in peace talks, and changing their position constantly, Israel bombing and killing and Iran being murderous of it's citizens.

Actually I think you know what to expect from Iran. US and Israel less so.

Which would you buy a used bike from?