Israel / Palestine

[secretsqirrel]

I see the Chief Rabbi has made a statement about how the UK Governments new sanctions will cause increased antisemitic attacks agains British Jews.

I can't help but wonder is his arguing that the sanctions are wrong might be interpreted by some as wanting to support the Israeli Government in the West Bank and contribute to further conflating Israeli Government actions with antisemitism. I wonder if the Chief Rabbi might have helped more had he stated how the British Jewish community condemns the atrocities happening in the West Bank how the British Jewish Community calls on the Israeli Government to comply with International Law and cease settlement in the West Bank, etc. Might have helped break the link between Israeli Government and antisemitism.

I was thinking the same thing. If you don’t condemn the violence, then to some you look like you support it. Plenty of British Jews condemn the violence but the leadership needs to reflect this.

 

[farfromtheland]

Nuance, Subtlety and Historical Accuracy went into a pub.
Said the barsteward, Why the long form?

 

[Pblakeney]

The problem here is mixing state with religion.

 

[farfromtheland]

The problem here is mixing state with religion.

Yes, but the problem goes deeper - I think it's to do with the difference between correlation and causation, and that people tend to conflate the two. Logic shouldn't be partisan, or subject to convenience.

Iconoclasm is vital, and was essential to both Jesus and Mohammed. Editors have reduced and compiled their messages into simpler creeds. Religions are perceived as more protected than other philosophical beliefs, and sadly immune from humour.

Defining self-defence must be an the ongoing project.

 

[Psamathe]

The problem here is mixing state with religion.

And whose driving that? I regard a significant part of that "mixing" is from Netanyahu who leaps to declare "anti-semitic" when anybody criticises atrocities, illegality, etc. carried out by the Israeli Government.

Similarly, too often the UK Jewish representation bodies give the impression their main aims are supporting the Israeli/Netanyahu Government.
eg

Five members of biggest British Jewish body suspended after Israel criticisms​

Five elected representatives to the largest body representing British Jews have been suspended for two years after criticising the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza.

All 36 signatories to an open letter published in April have been found to have breached the Board of Deputies’ code of conduct after a two-month investigation.

The letter said “Israel’s soul is being ripped out” by military action that renewed in March, and that the signatories could no longer “turn a blind eye or remain silent” on the issue.

If such UK bodies have called out illegal atrocities I've not heard it and I do try and stay aware of current affairs.

 

[Pblakeney]

Yes, but the problem goes deeper - I think it's to do with the difference between correlation and causation, and that people tend to conflate the two. Logic shouldn't be partisan, or subject to convenience.

Iconoclasm is vital, and was essential to both Jesus and Mohammed. Editors have reduced and compiled their messages into simpler creeds. Religions are perceived as more protected than other philosophical beliefs, and sadly immune from humour.

Defining self-defence must be an the ongoing project.

So the problem is religion?
I have no problem with that position.

 

[Pblakeney]

And whose driving that? I regard a significant part of that "mixing" is from Netanyahu who leaps to declare "anti-semitic" when anybody criticises atrocities, illegality, etc. carried out by the Israeli Government.

Similarly, too often the UK Jewish representation bodies give the impression their main aims are supporting the Israeli/Netanyahu Government.
eg

If such UK bodies have called out illegal atrocities I've not heard it and I do try and stay aware of current affairs.

That is the problem. We should be able to criticise Israel without it being linked to the Jewish faith yet we can’t. Apparently.

 

[briantrumpet]

That's all they've got. Can't help thinking it's somewhat lacking nuance.

 

[Pblakeney]

That's all they've got. Can't help thinking it's somewhat lacking nuance.

View attachment 17153

Shame on Ed. Imagine not supporting genocide.

 

[farfromtheland]

That is the problem. We should be able to criticise Israel without it being linked to the Jewish faith yet we can’t. Apparently.

I would say heritage rather than faith here. Any kind of faith is dodgy. It's ok to have it but not to use it to run things.

 

[Pblakeney]

I would say heritage rather than faith here. Any kind of faith is dodgy. It's ok to have it but not to use it to run things.

Nah. In Israel it is definitely religion.
Everything in their history is based on religion.

 

[farfromtheland]

Nah. In Israel it is definitely religion.
Everything in their history is based on religion.

Actually I doubt old testament and/or Torah affirmation is religion as much as tribal patri-achy.

Remember the Abraham and Isaac bit? I think there's been a failure to appreciate divine humour and the symbolism of a burning bush.

 

[farfromtheland]

... and the book of Esther has to be satire mistaken as docu-drama.

 

[Ian H]

Nah. In Israel it is definitely religion.
Everything in their history is based on religion.

Jewish identity is generally not defined by religious observance.

 

[Pblakeney]

Jewish identity is generally not defined by religious observance.

But I am not talking about Jews, I am talking about Israel as there is a difference. There will be many Jews without any connection to Israel.