Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
In the bunker watching the downfall of her beloved
Maureen Lipman: Cancel culture could wipe out comedy
- Thread starter Fab Foodie
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winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Here's the fuller version of the joke where he explains exactly that. Not only that, he pre-empts the controversy by beginning it 'this could be a career ender'. Was it a bit of a clumsy joke? Maybe. Was the intent to punch down? Probably not. Would Carr's audience understand it that way? I don't know. A lot of them I hope would but maybe not all of them.
View: https://twitter.com/TonyAitken18/status/1489698978832830464?t=bd0tRFfZhUesmrRqxo4yxw&s=19
MrGrumpy
Regular
That’s the first time I’ve watched it and must admit it was sharp intake of breath. However I get what he was trying to do. Was it appropriate to make it jokey , not sure. Its certainly got plenty folk frothing at the mouth for sure .
icowden
Legendary Member
I think most of them are frothing at the concept without actually looking at the material or how it was phrased and delivered. In his last special, part of his schtick is to take the audience down a dark path. He sets it up as him testing the audience to find their level. He then gradually goes through cleverly crafted bad taste jokes all the while explaining to the audience that they have ownership of this, and he will stop when they stop laughing. Thus they are terrible people encouraging him to do this.
This new special is called "His Dark Materials". It literally states what he intends to do in the title of the show. If you don't like that sort of humour, you don't have to watch it. And if some of these frothers watched it, they might realise that the endpoint of the joke is that the audience have been reminded or taught that the holocaust was wider than the deaths of the Jews, that other minority groups were included. And indeed the end point of the frothing is that people are suddenly taking an interest in the deaths of the gypsies (although no one is talking about the deaths in the other minority groups).
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
Excellent explanation of the issue.
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Beebo
Veteran
This joke does seem to have divided the comedy community.
I have heard David Baddiel against it and Jonathan Pie seemed to think it was a poor joke but not a sackable offence as Carr was clearly trying to make a point.
The fact the whole set is based on pushing the envelope of comedy taboos should allow the easily offended to avoid it.
The best thing you can say is that at least the plight of the gypsies in WW2 is being discussed.
I have heard David Baddiel against it and Jonathan Pie seemed to think it was a poor joke but not a sackable offence as Carr was clearly trying to make a point.
The fact the whole set is based on pushing the envelope of comedy taboos should allow the easily offended to avoid it.
The best thing you can say is that at least the plight of the gypsies in WW2 is being discussed.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
I'm not sure the issue is really WW2. We've got a government who won the last election with manifesto promises of pogroms against gypsies and travellers, and impossible conditions for GRT people to live their lives without perpetual harassment. Labour candidates drop leaflets about getting rid of 'encampments'. Open and unashamed prejudice against gypsies is commonplace even among people who probably consider themselves not racist. Carr knows this, and opts in that context for a gag which allows his audience a cheap laugh at the idea that getting rid of gypsies is a 'positive'. I'm sure they all reassure themselves that they don't mean genocide is actually a good thing. I'll buy into the idea that it's clever ironic commentary when I see Carr speaking out in support of GRT people. And yes, I am already inclined to read Carr's jokes as the complacent clever-dickery of the most smug, irritating tax-dodger on the telly, in case you're wondering if I come to this free from bias. I've never watched more that five minutes of Carr because he has a face that a less peaceable person would never tire of punching. This extract is not changing my mind.
icowden
Legendary Member
Yes. I did wonder whether Baddiel has watched the clip or just been asked to comment on the paraphrased version. He has also tweeted that Jimmy is a good friend of his, and that his commentary is solely about his opinion of the joke in question.
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
I would agree with that 100%
FishFright
Well-Known Member
Never thought I'd see you post that
icowden
Legendary Member
And, as many Comedians try to point out... no-one expects anyone to like all comedians or all jokes. Just because *you* don't like a comedian or a joke, it doesn't mean that it wasn't funny or that they are not a good comedian.
Personally I have a very broad taste in comics. I like Jimmy Carr although I prefer his "hosting" comedy to his stand up shows which are a little dark for me. I tend to like old school and new school, but I don't feel the need to go on twitter and tell the comedians that I don't like, that I don't like them any more than I feel the need to yell at people in the street. I just don't watch their comedy. I'd watch Suzi Ruffle but pass on Sarah Pascoe for example. But that's fine. Lots of people like Pascoe - they probably identify more with her style of comedy.
The clever thing about Jimmy Carr is that he knows he is dislikeable, he plays upon his looks and style, and knows that his style works for the audience that want to see it. He crafts his jokes very cleverly and has a masterful control of the audience. It's worth watching one of his older shows where he just invites the audience to heckle him, to see how quick and skilful he is. He is also very well regarded by other comics, which also says a lot about him.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Sorry to disappoint!
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Really? Funny how we form different opinions of each others characters because it seems totally consistent to me.
