Nurse murdered seven babies

[Pale Rider]

The massive trial of nurse Lucy Letby has concluded (for now) with her being found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further six.

Of the vast amount of details, I was surprised to see all the murders and attempts happened in a 12 month period - that's some rate of offending.

The trial itself may be close to a record breaker, taking in eight months of evidence and a further several weeks of jury deliberations.

In all that time, only one juror fell by the wayside, which is a good effort.

The judge left them out for four weeks to reach a unanimous verdict.

He gave the majority direction - 10-1 - in this case about a week ago.

It may be the majority cracked it, particularly as the jury was unable to reach a verdict on a further four attempts.

The Crown, as they usually do, have asked for time to consider if they want a retrial on those charges.

Tough decision, the remaining four can make no difference to the eventual sentence, but the parents may feel that a no result has denied them justice.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66180606

 

[Deleted member 121]

Truly horrific and unimaginable.

 

[BoldonLad]

Truly horrific and unimaginable.

True, one would suspect that, no matter what the evidence, the jury members would find it very difficult to believe that a nurse could do such things.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Was listening to the coverage on the World at One while sorting out house stuff.

Agree with @Pale Rider that whether to ask for a retrial on the cases where jury couldn't agree is going to be difficult.

A whole life sentence seems inevitable so even if another jury could agree it won't make any difference whether she's guily, acquitted or some other combination across those cases. There's also the cost of going through the cases again. I guess it won't take as long but even then it's going to be months.

I'd bet that if a politician gets involved and there are loud media voices calling for a retrial 'to give the parents closure' time/money will be of no consequence they'll be back in court next year.

 

[Bromptonaut]

If what was being said by CoCH staff on the radio about how managers refused to listen to clinical concerns about Letby is half true then a Judicial Inquiry is needed....

 

[Pale Rider]

The recriminations begin.

Seems hospital managers have not covered themselves in glory, having ignored and even tried to shut down complaints from a couple of consultants.

No doubt there will be a pointless money no object inquiry, after which no heads, not even deputy ones, will roll.

On a reporting note, my weirdo stalker might be interested in the pic of one of the dodgy managers, Ian Harvey, or at least he would be if he understood its provenance.

It was taken by the Chester Standard outside an A&E department, clearly as a promo for some worthy but dull initiative or other.

There will have been a bingo moment in the newsroom when they realised they already had him, because he certainly won't be posing for any pics now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66120934

 

[BoldonLad]

The recriminations begin.

Seems hospital managers have not covered themselves in glory, having ignored and even tried to shut down complaints from a couple of consultants.

No doubt there will be a pointless money no object inquiry, after which no heads, not even deputy ones, will roll.

On a reporting note, my weirdo stalker might be interested in the pic of one of the dodgy managers, Ian Harvey, or at least he would be if he understood its provenance.

It was taken by the Chester Standard outside an A&E department, clearly as a promo for some worthy but dull initiative or other.

There will have been a bingo moment in the newsroom when they realised they already had him, because he certainly won't be posing for any pics now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66120934

I am sure you are right, but... "lessons will be learned" (not)

 

[Pale Rider]

I am sure you are right, but... "lessons will be learned" (not)

It is very hard to legislate for such an outrageous offender as Letby.

But it does look as if smarter management may have prevented some of the deaths.

All an inquiry can really conclude is we need to employ managers with enough nous to manage a difficult situation when one comes along.

Which we should be doing anyway.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The information revealed in that BBC link is awful. Complaint after complaint from senior staff ignored, refusal to involve the police, dismissal of concerns all round, and a reluctance to even move Letby from the unit nevermind investigate her. I can't imagine what the families have been through, and for such a long time too. A dreadful experience for the officers bringing the case and the jurors and legal staff too.

 

[Pale Rider]

and the jurors

The jurors are usually excused jury service for the remainder of their lives as a formal thank you for their service.

Most jury cases are not that distressing, given the real nasty stuff is often all but edited out to avoid distress.

I reckon this is a fish of a different flavour.

Having your nose rubbed in details of dead and abused babies for nine months is a trial in itself.

 

[All uphill]

True, one would suspect that, no matter what the evidence, the jury members would find it very difficult to believe that a nurse could do such things.

Therein lies a danger.

When we believe a certain group are beyond suspicion, and therefore scrutiny, its only a matter of time before the "baddies" are drawn to that profession or occupation - see priests, TV personalities and police.

 

[Beebo]

All evidence appears to be purely circumstantial. Proving she did it was clearly very difficult. It’s taken 9 months which is a marathon of a trial.

These type of cases come around very rarely. No one wants to think their colleague is murdering babies.
People will blame the hospital for a failure to act, but they simply wouldn’t have the resources to investigate this case in a much detail as the court can. And they run the risk of ruining someone’s career with a false accusation.

 

[AuroraSaab]

True, but senior staff voiced serious concerns on several occasions and asked for police to be involved, knowing the police would have access to material and evidence a hospital led enquiry wouldn't. Bosses rejected this. I think it was because such a situation was so unthinkable they looked for every other explanation rather than consider that a nurse was responsible. The closest comparison I can think of is the Shipman case, where again nobody wanted to think the unthinkable and forging a will was his ultimate undoing.

 

[classic33]

Closest case would be almost identical.
Another nurse, Beverley Allitt, did exactly the same thing.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Closest case would be almost identical.
Another nurse, Beverley Allitt, did exactly the same thing.

I was firstly clutching for Allit's name and then shouting it every time the radio said unique case, female 'angel' murdering kids etc...