Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[classic33]

The limits are off so it's up to us not to selectively or wildly edit each others posts.

Nothing stopped you doing the same before.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Brexit is going alright as far as I'm concerned, oh hang on, I'm selfish and "I'm alright Jack " sh*t for you (although it isn't) but no different for many.
You even admit yourself nothing has really changed yet 'you care about others ' .
I could come on here and say the same and I would be as noble as you.

 

[mudsticks]

I supported remain because it is good for the UK, it's people, and by extension me, not because it's good for Poles or Romanians etc. (although happily it benefits them too).

Well the point of the EU is that it's a group mutually beneficial to everyone.

Good for me , you, us , and them.


If neighbouring countries are doing well, then so does ours.
And vice versa.

We didn't 'snaffle' anyone , people move all over the E.U. for work and some of them used to come here until they were repeated told they weren't welcome by the Lies For Billionaires Club.

And we in this country could have had better wages, working conditions , a better trained workforce, even properly supported farmers* secured our supply chains, and industries, and all the rest of it inside the EU.

Nothing was stopping us doing any of that.


Whilst we also benefitted from frictionless trade, environmental and social protections, freedom of movement and exchange, and all that positive EU membership stuff at the same time.

But some people bought into a pack of lies about what the EU 'made' us do.

And there is still nothing to show for that mistake, nothing even on the horizon that even fractionally compensates.

We have just been left with an economically depressed, and divided country .

We've made ourselves look really dumb, and even untrustworthy, on the world stage.

And before anyone says

"Well instead of moaning, what are you doing to make it better?"


The answer is alongside just doing what I have to do to keep my business going - I'm wading through pages of documents and attending online seminars on post brexit agriculture.

*Supermarkets, and processors, are and were doing most of the shafting of farmers

 

[mudsticks]

Brexit is going alright as far as I'm concerned, oh hang on, I'm selfish and "I'm alright Jack " sh*t for you (although it isn't) but no different for many.
You even admit yourself nothing has really changed yet 'you care about others ' .
I could come on here and say the same and I would be as noble as you.

There's nothing particularly 'noble' about caring for others.

That's just baseline humanity isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 28]

There's nothing particularly 'noble' about caring for others.

That's just baseline humanity isn't it?

My point was Brexit hasn't really changed much for me, or for you apparently, but I say that and I'm accused of all sorts but if you say the same but then add a little "I think about others " then it's OK.

 

[mudsticks]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for all those benefits to surface , the suspense is killing me .

You must have cramp by now.??

Probs best relax, we will let you know if anything arises.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Well who'd have thunk it??

But will enough of those essential workers even want to come back, and work here.??

Having been told repeatedly how unwelcome they were.??

Immigration U turn imminant ??

But will it be enough.?

Or too little too late?

And if we're letting in lorry drivers, surely harvest, and factory workers will be next ??

Too little, too late. The labour force has shrunk by a million, almost half of that is because of people retiring, and with young people shunning the market in favour of studies, that takes it to almost 3/4 million gone. The other 1/4 is lost immigrants (though ''lost'' doesn't quite describe it). This lost 1/4 million is what the demographics of demagoguery looks like.

Grudgingly allowing immigrant workers temporarily into the UK market isn't going to fill that gap and, besides, there are other more welcoming European countries competing for workers.

 

[mudsticks]

My point was Brexit hasn't really changed much for me, or for you apparently, but I say that and I'm accused of all sorts but if you say the same but then add a little "I think about others " then it's OK.

Lots has changed for others.
And is changing all the time..

You've been told about it repeatedly, by many people , but choose to ignore or diminish it.

It's even in the national.news daily .

What do you want to see, blood on the streets , before you'll pay attention?

Did you read this article ?

The government itself is on the verge of reversing the bar on overseas lorry drivers working here, because of shortages.

It's not just people talking about it on here.

Apart from appearing not to care about what is happening to other people, and dismissing their reality, you don't seem capable of paying attention to what is being reported.

You're not affected, or you don't think you are .

Many others are.

Anyone repeatedly denying that these things are happening to others makes them look uncaring, deluded or both.

 

[mudsticks]

Too little, too late. The labour force has shrunk by a million, almost half of that is because of people retiring, and with young people shunning the market in favour of studies, that takes it to almost 3/4 million gone. The other 1/4 is lost immigrants (though ''lost'' doesn't quite describe it). This lost 1/4 million is what the demographics of demagoguery looks like.

Grudgingly allowing immigrant workers temporarily into the UK market isn't going to fill that gap and, besides, there are other more welcoming European countries competing for workers.

I agree, and 'we've' done this to ourselves.

I'd be all for more relocalised supply systems.

Fewer lorries on the roads, all in all,

And all the rest of the things needed to make a resilient, sustainable, supply system .

But that will take time and effort to transition towards.

It needs thinking through, training and facilities, and investment put in place.

This was none of those things.

 

[FishFright]

Nothing stopped you doing the same before.

In reaction to and highlight my post being edited in the quote.

 

[cookiemonster]

My point was Brexit hasn't really changed much for me, or for you apparently, but I say that and I'm accused of all sorts but if you say the same but then add a little "I think about others " then it's OK.

The penny hasn’t really dropped for you yet, has it? Still too embarrassed to admit that you fell for the biggest con the UK’s seen in its history?

C’mon Shep! Open your eyes. This is way past left or right.

 

[BoldonLad]

It’s all the fault of the EU.

Exactly... either....

We shouldn't have joined...

or

They shouldn't have allowed us to leave...

either way, it is THEIR fault

 

[mudsticks]

Exactly... either....

We shouldn't have joined...

or

They shouldn't have allowed us to leave...

either way, it is THEIR fault

And then when we do leave,

They have the cheek to keep on applying all the roolz' of the club - those roolz we helped fashion - - they only go and keep applying those roolz' as if we're no longer in the club..

The club that we just left.

Sooo unreasonable

 

[Unkraut]

Germany similarly has a shortage of around 45-65,000 drivers.

There is already a shortage of between 60,000 and 80,000 truck drivers in Germany - and the number is rising. Every year around 30,000 drivers retire and only around 15,000 young people are replacing them. There is a worldwide need for drivers.

You figure intrigued me so I checked with the Tageschau, the BBC 1 news equivalent. One of the reasons for the shortage is the abolition of conscription which used to train drivers who would then go on to do this as a job afterward. Other factors include low pay and the cost to family life of being on the road.

The situation in the UK was also reported, and the reasons for the shortage attributed to Brexit and the barriers it has created, and also to covid. Freedom of movement has gone, and many from eastern Europe who went home due to covid are unlikely to want to return, not least because of the tiresome bureaucracy involved now, including at the border. The UK is not at attractive as it used to be and there is rising demand nearer to home.

My own take on this is that this is a European wide problem that is likely to get worse, and that Brexit has made it worse for the UK rather than being the sole cause of it.

In the end the market will solve this inasmuch as pay and conditions will have to improve dramatically, and we will all have to pay more for the privilege of having goods supplied. Train more lorry drivers and fewer accountants, solicitors and estate agents!

 

[newfhouse]

Train more lorry drivers

Drive fewer lorries.