Prince Andrew

[First Aspect]

Controversial I know, but I think Andrew is not evil as such, just a blend of fairly pointless character traits combined with money. He is quite unintelligent and fantastically arrogant, but I sort of doubt he's of much significance in the Epstein case aside from being a high profile idiot.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Controversial I know, but I think Andrew is not evil as such, just a blend of fairly pointless character traits combined with money. He is quite unintelligent and fantastically arrogant, but I sort of doubt he's of much significance in the Epstein case aside from being a high profile idiot.

He was a useful idiot. Handy to add a touch of "class" to Epstein's contacts.

But Andrew was happy to play that role because of the "benefits in kind" which in itself is a form of evil.

 

[Pinno718]

Controversial I know, but I think Andrew is not evil as such, just a blend of fairly pointless character traits combined with money. He is quite unintelligent and fantastically arrogant, but I sort of doubt he's of much significance in the Epstein case aside from being a high profile idiot.

Guiffre claimed she was forced to have sex with A.
He has got away with not testifying in a court of law to counter these allegations.
A used Epstein's apartment in NY whilst Epstein was serving a prison sentence for being a convicted sex trafficker.

• The Visit: In his 2019 BBC Newsnight interview, Prince Andrew admitted to staying at the Manhattan townhouse for several days in 2010.

Anyone who associated themselves with Epstein post 2006 when he was charged with sex trafficking and later convicted has very poor moral judgement and anyone who did as far as I am concerned, is potentially a perpetrator. I do not care whether whatever sh*t gets thrown at him is false or otherwise.
I am sorry FA, but that is a weak, overly candid and apologetical excuse for being stupid and for not being morally lacking with a highly questionable relationship with Epstein.
We have not probed A's relationship nearly enough.

 

[BoldonLad]

Controversial I know, but I think Andrew is not evil as such, just a blend of fairly pointless character traits combined with money. He is quite unintelligent and fantastically arrogant, but I sort of doubt he's of much significance in the Epstein case aside from being a high profile idiot.

If he is, then approaching 50% of the world population are too, IMHO.

 

[Rusty Nails]

If he is, then approaching 50% of the world population are too, IMHO.

Are you referring to men as 50% of the world's population or does the 50% cover women as well?

Are you really saying that 50% are involved with a man who liked sex with underage girls and trafficked them for sex, or would be if they had the chance?

I am interested in your source for this figure.

 

[BoldonLad]

Are you referring to men as 50% of the world's population or does the 50% cover women as well?

Are you really saying that 50% are involved with a man who liked sex with underage girls and trafficked them for sex, or would be if they had the chance?

I am interested in your source for this figure.

A) I said approaching

B) yes, I mean the male of the species

c) I have no source, but, I believe that a large proportion of the male population would be susceptible to a nubile female. If that were not so, "the honey trap" would not work.

D) no, I am not going to comment on if I have or have not succumbed 😂

I did say, way back, (I cannot be bothered to rake back and find the post number) that IMHO, many men think with their dick. Almost daily news reports support this opinion, I believe, perhaps you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[First Aspect]

Are you referring to men as 50% of the world's population or does the 50% cover women as well?

Are you really saying that 50% are involved with a man who liked sex with underage girls and trafficked them for sex, or would be if they had the chance?

I am interested in your source for this figure.

There is no evidence Andrew MW was involved in trafficking and it is only speculation that he was aware. There is also no evidence or suggestion he undertook any activities with any under aged girls.

Is it distasteful to use sex workers? That's a moral judgment not a legal one, unless they were trafficked and he bore any responsibility for that (including inaction in light of knowledge of the situation).

His knowledge or otherwise is why the US authorities want to speak to him, but I can certainly see him being dim witted and wishful enough to behave been ignorant as to what was really going on for those women.

There's a pretty good argument that any reasonable person would have considered the possibility and maybe not gone back multiple times. However, the actual sex trafficking and paedopilia was committed by someone else, and I do think there is some referred rage on anyone who associated with him.

 

[briantrumpet]

There is no evidence Andrew MW was involved in trafficking and it is only speculation that he was aware. There is also no evidence or suggestion he undertook any activities with any under aged girls.

Is it distasteful to use sex workers? That's a moral judgment not a legal one, unless they were trafficked and he bore any responsibility for that (including inaction in light of knowledge of the situation).

His knowledge or otherwise is why the US authorities want to speak to him, but I can certainly see him being dim witted and wishful enough to behave been ignorant as to what was really going on for those women.

There's a pretty good argument that any reasonable person would have considered the possibility and maybe not gone back multiple times. However, the actual sex trafficking and paedopilia was committed by someone else, and I do think there is some referred rage on anyone who associated with him.

It's slightly amusing to see Hunter Biden being praised for actually being nice to the sex workers he's been a client of, and tipping them properly.

 

[Rusty Nails]

A) I said approaching

B) yes, I mean the male of the species

c) I have no source, but, I believe that a large proportion of the male population would be susceptible to a nubile female. If that were not so, "the honey trap" would not work.

D) no, I am not going to comment on if I have or have not succumbed 😂

I did say, way back, (I cannot be bothered to rake back and find the post number) that IMHO, many men think with their dick. Almost daily news reports support this opinion, I believe, perhaps you have evidence to the contrary?

C. There is susceptibility to the attentions of a nubile female, and then there is being involved in illegal trafficking of (always) young nubile females. One is weakness, the other something a lot worse.

D. I am happy to believe that you are one of the squeaky clean 50%, certainly when it comes to sex trafficking

Cynicism is one thing but making a statement about 50%, even if ever so humbly, requires some sort of proof or verification, other than 'stands to reason'. It should be easier to prove a positive than a negative.

 

[Rusty Nails]

However, the actual sex trafficking and paedopilia was committed by someone else, and I do think there is some referred rage on anyone who associated with him.

I know there has not been a court case, and Andrew has so far refused to volunteer his services to the US authorities to give evidence about his involvement. There is some evidence of his involvement but no smoking gun as yet, which is bound to lead to speculation.

I am less worried about those who associated with Epstein than about those who gained in some way from his illegal activities. This I regard in a similar light to receiving stolen goods which can be a crime even though not involved in the actual theft.

 

[Psamathe]

There is no evidence Andrew MW was involved in trafficking and it is only speculation that he was aware. There is also no evidence or suggestion he undertook any activities with any under aged girls.

I don't follow every detail but I thought there was a victim who came forward stating how she was underaged when abused naming Duke Andrew. She was confident enough that she took her case to court yet to avoid having to appear in court Duke Andrew paid her the sort of amount that makes your eyes water as well as several undertakings (at least some of which he didn't then honour)

I agree no signed confession but witness/victim, court case and massive pay-off must constitute some sort of "evidence"?

 

[Pinno718]

There is no evidence Andrew MW was involved in trafficking and it is only speculation that he was aware. There is also no evidence or suggestion he undertook any activities with any under aged girls.

Is it distasteful to use sex workers? That's a moral judgment not a legal one, unless they were trafficked and he bore any responsibility for that (including inaction in light of knowledge of the situation).

His knowledge or otherwise is why the US authorities want to speak to him, but I can certainly see him being dim witted and wishful enough to behave been ignorant as to what was really going on for those women.

There's a pretty good argument that any reasonable person would have considered the possibility and maybe not gone back multiple times. However, the actual sex trafficking and paedopilia was committed by someone else, and I do think there is some referred rage on anyone who associated with him.

Guiffre was trafficked for sex. That means that if he had intercourse with her, it goes beyond a simple transaction. I do not see anything wrong with prostitution. but the two things are different.

Surely he is and has been surrounded by advisors his whole life. He didn't float around the world doing arms deals with the Saudi's for example, in a bubble, nor could he possibly claim naivety.

Are you glossing over his association with a man who was (very public at the time) a convicted sex trafficker?

Let's not shuffle him off into obscurity. Lets shuffle him into a public enquiry/law court and get grilled and equally anyone involved with Epstein should receive the same treatment.
There's no sliding scale of relative depravity. What a perverse nonsense.

 

[Pinno718]

I agree no signed confession but witness/victim, court case and massive pay-off must constitute some sort of "evidence"?

Quite. You wouldn't fork out if you could deny accusation (backed up by the best solicitors).

 

[Pinno718]

If he is, then approaching 50% of the world population are too, IMHO.

Odd perspective with no foundation.

 

[First Aspect]

Guiffre was trafficked for sex. That means that if he had intercourse with her, it goes beyond a simple transaction. I do not see anything wrong with prostitution. but the two things are different.

Surely he is and has been surrounded by advisors his whole life. He didn't float around the world doing arms deals with the Saudi's for example, in a bubble, nor could he possibly claim naivety.

Are you glossing over his association with a man who was (very public at the time) a convicted sex trafficker?

Let's not shuffle him off into obscurity. Lets shuffle him into a public enquiry/law court and get grilled and equally anyone involved with Epstein should receive the same treatment.
There's no sliding scale of relative depravity. What a perverse nonsense.

Guiffre was trafficked but was not under age. There is a question over whether AMW knew or should reasonably have known about her circumstances. And his pathetic attempts to deny any association are insulting to the intelligence of a pigeon. But it is not clear whether he committed a crime.

I guess my stance is that he's not going to testify to anyone, is not going to be reduced to the status his talents and behaviour would merit and that the further public humiliation merely contaminates my news feed with his annoying face.

There's also a risk that all the attention on a feckless pillock like him (let's face it most other clients of Epstein seem to have avoided the camera a bit more effectively than Tim Nicebutdim) might detract from where more fruitful investigation could be directed.