Racist Politician

[PK99]

Seems to me she called him a coconut.

Is that a racist term?

Anyway she's apologised.

Yes it is.

Is apologizing for using a racist term sufficient? Or, has its use revealed an underlying racist belief that no apology can excuse?

 

[winjim]

Come off it. A large number of thread titles and ops are not exactly neutral in tone....Pritti Nazi? There is no reason why threads/ops should be neutral as political discussion is rarely neutral.

There is no doubt at all that had say Suella Braverman said it about David Lammy there would have been many posts condemning her.

It was wrong, she has apologised, the Labour Party has acted quickly and correctly, but in politics that is never enough for the opposing side.

Fringe events at party conferences sometimes make people say unfortunate things because they get carried away with the moment trying to say stuff that they think will please their audience. They say things they would never say on the main platform.

I'm not keen on the use of the term 'Nazi' unless describing literal genocide, if that helps. The OP in this thread wasn't talking about Huq, it was trying to make a point about members of this forum, it's kind of tedious.

Maybe I'm demand avoidant but no, I'm not going to condemn her 'racist comments'. I'm going to say that she said something a bit daft, she was right to apologise and the Labour party were right to act, but she had a serious underlying point which is worth thinking about and discussing.

 

[Beebo]

Can we expect all black people to have the same outlook and views.
I think what she said was very misguided. But understand she feels let down.

The one area I will support her on is if the Conservatives start to claim they are somehow speaking for the wider Black community because they have a few token black MPs.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It's absolutely relevant, how can you not see that? It's so loaded, so biased but being itself a passive aggressive accusation of bias. Honestly it's massively transparent.

In my view it's the job of an discussion forum to have and certian bias, or better worded that topics can have a certain bias. Otherwise the non-existing mods would have a lot of topics to change/lock etc. etc. but even on the old site, an topic having an bias wasn't really the problem.

Regarding the comments themselves, firstly I'm white so I'm not gonna opine on a black person's feelings of identity but it's clear that Kwarteng's experiences are fairly distant from those of many black people in our country and indeed what you might call 'black society'.

Well my father is black so i known both sides of the medal, how people sometimes change their behavior after see-ing your parent is black, whether it is patronizing, suddenly thinking someone need extra help because he/she has a black background, or being talked with more caution or as being ''one of them'' which is the covert way most racist talk whether they are black or white or anything in between.
However even if Kwateng has a whole other background than other black poeple, the hole picture what you create what typically is a black society is exactly the problem, and i known it mostly born out of good intention, but it doesn't work. Their is and should be a black culture, not a black soceity we should not accept an certain assumed social position just because someone is black or just because black people are more often found in that position.

Secondly this idea of a black (BAME / BIPOC etc) person not being truly black is well established, rightly or wrongly. We all know the terms which are used but again, nobody needs my white opinion. Thirdly, go and watch Bring The Pain. You might just get my joke.

I known that concept, like i said somewhere above blm amongst others is very actively abusing that, however that doesn't mean it should be ok, hence this whole topic.

She's making a point about race in our society. She's making it clumsily and probably should have chosen her words better but it is valid. The Tories are superficially on the front foot when it comes to diversity, three women PMs, ethnic minority representation in the cabinet. But is this representation itself representative of the life chances of women and ethnic minorities under this government? Or are they, as their white male predecessors were before them, merely in place as a result of privilege and elitism?

I don't think she is i remember a other black tory member who also was a women with a very strong oninion against black live matter, she was criminalized in an similar fashion better chosen words but the message was the same ''you aint black if you are not behaving like we thing black people should behave'' was the bottom line and still is today.
The changes in a tory cabinet are great no matter what background you have, just have a shitload of money behind you and you ''ll be fine at least that is my impression. i don't belief it has anything to do with your analysis my impression is this is much deeper.[/b]

 

[albion]

A dim wit racist is easily caught out. Those using semi clandestine racism as a tool are the proven horror show.

 

[PK99]

Can we expect all black people to have the same outlook and views.
I think what she said was very misguided. But understand she feels let down.

The one area I will support her on is if the Conservatives start to claim they are somehow speaking for the wider Black community because they have a few token black MPs.

Your phrasing suggests you believe them to be there because they are BAME, not on merit. Is that what you mean?

You also seem to group all non-white MPs as Black.

You further seem to suggest there is a single Black Community. Is that correct?

 

[Moodyman]

Seems to me she called him a coconut.

Is that a racist term?

Anyway she's apologised.

No. But when used by dark skinned people, it often falls into one of two camps.

It could be a term of endearment (he’s upwardly mobile) or suspicion (he’s not one of us). In this case, I think it’s the latter i.e. he’s not a proper black man so he can’t be on our side.

Been called it many times, coz I don’t speak the lingo.

 

[Moodyman]

Yes it is.

Is apologizing for using a racist term sufficient? Or, has its use revealed an underlying racist belief that no apology can excuse?

It shoes she has prejudiced views on how black people speak. By having a generalised view on people based on their colour, yes, that is racist.

But the term coconut itself is not a racist. Its used to identify Asians or blacks who don’t speak the way the majority of their brother or sisters speak.

 

[Rusty Nails]

but the message was the same ''you aint black if you are not behaving like we thing black people should behave'' was the bottom line

On this I agree with you. I believe it comes over as incredibly patronising towards black people.

The fact is black people can be as good/evil, intelligent/thick, right/wrong as white people but they are still black and, as individuals, should be criticised for those faults rather than bringing their colour into it.

It may have not been overtly racist but it was using race as a stick to beat him with.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes it is.

Is apologizing for using a racist term sufficient? Or, has its use revealed an underlying racist belief that no apology can excuse?

Only if you are not a Labour supporter.

 

[Beebo]

Your phrasing suggests you believe them to be there because they are BAME, not on merit. Is that what you mean?

You also seem to group all non-white MPs as Black.

You further seem to suggest there is a single Black Community. Is that correct?

It was probably not my best worded post.

I’m well aware that there isn’t one black community, but i suspect that only a small percentage would align their beliefs with the chancellor. And I suspect that was the point Rupa Huq was trying to be make, but she got it very wrong.

 

[Ian H]

I suppose Huq can't be accused of punching down, but her remarks are ill-judged and entirely off the mark. Attack Kwarteng's policies, not his background or accent.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Attack Kwarteng's policies, not his background or accent.

And let's face it, that's not hard to do.

 

[spen666]

OP ain't exactly neutral in tone is it?


Anyway, I'm not saying she should have made those comments. But I understand.

Another attempt to play the poster rather than the subject matter.

You avoid condemning or even criticising the expression of racist views?
Just proving my point that peole are more interested in party politics

I've never seen YOU in the queue to condemn racist Farage/Johnson/Patel et al. Pot kettle, spen
You are so upset about your imagining us "lefties unwilling to condemn one of our own" that you started a flipping thread about it, rather that just starting a thread condemning the alleged comments by the Labour MP in question. Jesus christ spen, have a word with thyself.

Still avoiding condemning the racism by this MP?

You are simply confirming what I said in my opening post

 

[winjim]

Another attempt to play the poster rather than the subject matter.

You avoid condemning or even criticising the expression of racist views?
Just proving my point that peole are more interested in party politics

Your OP was preemptively playing the posters. I'm not playing that game. And you know, I've said that she was a bit daft and was right to apologise.