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First Aspect

Legendary Member
Did any of them know what a batt is though?

Fwiw once you've realised that mass and energy are interchangeable, the simple squared relationship would be comparatively easy.

At least, that's what I found when I developed relativity.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Did any of them know what a batt is though?

Fwiw once you've realised that mass and energy are interchangeable, the simple squared relationship would be comparatively easy.

At least, that's what I found when I developed relativity.

I'm relatively developed as well.
 

PurplePenguin

Senior Member
Definitely outgunned today at the barbecue - apart from my chauffeur, there was a theoretical physicist, two mathematicians, an engineer, a retired Vice Chancellor, and a couple of other Very Clever People. At some point they chatted about how Einstein himself never wrote "E=mc^2", but I managed to get the conversation back to Count Basie, so I could feel slightly less ignorant.

But, more to the point, the barbecue was excellent, and not a cheaty one done with a gas. Real fire = real man. Or something.

So you're not going to repeat whatever the E=mc^2 discussion was about? Disappointing. I suspect it is the rest of the equation, but if it is that, it's a bit of a dull observation.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
So you're not going to repeat whatever the E=mc^2 discussion was about? Disappointing. I suspect it is the rest of the equation, but if it is that, it's a bit of a dull observation.

The comment was that Einstein didn't originally write that equation in that form, and (IIRC) there was a little more to what the symbols represented (evident from his commentary) than the 'simple' version suggests.

I asked Gemini, and this sounds like the very brief end-of-barbecue summary (which came after a discussion of how "I'm completely stuffed!" would be translated into French, Italian, and German - we never got onto the Serbian translation).

No, Albert Einstein did not write it that way initially. When he first introduced the concept of mass-energy equivalence in 1905, the famous equation $E = mc^2$ did not appear anywhere in his paper.
Instead, his original formulation and the evolution of how he wrote the formula follow a specific timeline:

1. The 1905 Original Formulation​

In his late 1905 paper published in Annalen der Physik, titled "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content?", Einstein used different notation entirely.
He used $L$ to represent energy (specifically in the form of light radiation) and $V$ to represent the speed of light. He concluded that if a body loses an amount of energy $L$, its mass diminishes by $L / V^2$.
He famously stated the concept in prose rather than a standalone equation:
"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by $L / V^2$."

2. The 1906–1907 Shift​

As Einstein and other physicists (like Max Planck) continued to develop special relativity, the notation began to shift. Einstein started using $E$ for energy and $c$ for the speed of light. However, he still preferred to express the relationship by solving for mass, often writing it as:
$$\Delta m = \frac{\Delta E}{c^2}$$
To Einstein, the core philosophical breakthrough was that mass is a direct measure of a body's energy content—meaning mass is a secondary, dependent property.

3. When Did He Finally Write $E = mc^2$?​

Einstein did eventually write the equation in its universally recognized form, but it took several years:
  • In Manuscript (1912): The earliest known instance of Einstein writing the formula in its familiar form by his own hand appears in a 1912 manuscript on special relativity.
  • In Public (1946): He wrote a famous essay for Science Illustrated titled "E = mc²: The Most Urgent Problem of Our Time," completely embracing the popular notation that the public had come to associate with his work following the development of the atomic bomb.

Why Did the Public Version Win?​

The reason $E = mc^2$ became the pop-culture shorthand for physics boils down to aesthetic elegance. Solving for $E$ isolates the energy potential of matter on one side, and multiplying a tiny amount of mass ($m$) by the unfathomably large speed of light squared ($c^2$) perfectly illustrates the terrifyingly massive amount of energy locked inside everyday matter.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
Never mind Einstein, the important question is were the sausages at the barbecue burnt?

Some of the early ones were (with profuse apologies), but by the end of the cooking session, he'd definitely worked out that his new barbecue was more scorchio than his old one, and so needs more practice. I'd be a willing guinea pig (as long as he doesn't cook guinea pigs).
 

First Aspect

Legendary Member
The comment was that Einstein didn't originally write that equation in that form, and (IIRC) there was a little more to what the symbols represented (evident from his commentary) than the 'simple' version suggests.

I asked Gemini, and this sounds like the very brief end-of-barbecue summary (which came after a discussion of how "I'm completely stuffed!" would be translated into French, Italian, and German - we never got onto the Serbian translation).

No, Albert Einstein did not write it that way initially. When he first introduced the concept of mass-energy equivalence in 1905, the famous equation $E = mc^2$ did not appear anywhere in his paper.
Instead, his original formulation and the evolution of how he wrote the formula follow a specific timeline:

1. The 1905 Original Formulation​

In his late 1905 paper published in Annalen der Physik, titled "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content?", Einstein used different notation entirely.
He used $L$ to represent energy (specifically in the form of light radiation) and $V$ to represent the speed of light. He concluded that if a body loses an amount of energy $L$, its mass diminishes by $L / V^2$.
He famously stated the concept in prose rather than a standalone equation:

2. The 1906–1907 Shift​

As Einstein and other physicists (like Max Planck) continued to develop special relativity, the notation began to shift. Einstein started using $E$ for energy and $c$ for the speed of light. However, he still preferred to express the relationship by solving for mass, often writing it as:
$$\Delta m = \frac{\Delta E}{c^2}$$
To Einstein, the core philosophical breakthrough was that mass is a direct measure of a body's energy content—meaning mass is a secondary, dependent property.

3. When Did He Finally Write $E = mc^2$?​

Einstein did eventually write the equation in its universally recognized form, but it took several years:
  • In Manuscript (1912): The earliest known instance of Einstein writing the formula in its familiar form by his own hand appears in a 1912 manuscript on special relativity.
  • In Public (1946): He wrote a famous essay for Science Illustrated titled "E = mc²: The Most Urgent Problem of Our Time," completely embracing the popular notation that the public had come to associate with his work following the development of the atomic bomb.

Why Did the Public Version Win?​

The reason $E = mc^2$ became the pop-culture shorthand for physics boils down to aesthetic elegance. Solving for $E$ isolates the energy potential of matter on one side, and multiplying a tiny amount of mass ($m$) by the unfathomably large speed of light squared ($c^2$) perfectly illustrates the terrifyingly massive amount of energy locked inside everyday matter.
Arguing he didn't come up with the mathematical relationship is a bit reminiscent of "wrong, it's Reykjavik comma Iceland *full stop*" from the Young Ones.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
Arguing he didn't come up with the mathematical relationship is a bit reminiscent of "wrong, it's Reykjavik comma Iceland *full stop*" from the Young Ones.

I might have slightly inadvertently misrepresented the conversation because of my ignorance. But the person seemed really clever because he had mad hair and a foreign accent.
 
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