Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Stevo 666]

I am sure additional income can be earned, speaking roles, lobbyists etc, plus, will she (or the children) not have some maintenance payments from the father(s), or, were they both immaculate conceptions?

Quite possibly, but as she has just taken a significant pay cut at the same time as upping her borrowing by £650k and having to pay a decent five figure sum to HMRC then her financial position has almost certainly taken a turn for the worse.

 

[Stevo 666]

From what I've seen she also didn't take proper advice. She had stuff in writing but it wasn't proper/expert advice. Identified in Magnus's letter

That appeared to be the main point.

 

[Bromptonaut]

She just about avoided the temptation to give feeble excuses and I suspect she's acted in such a way that she will reappear at the top level again in a year or two.

I don't think Starmer covered himself in glory by equivocating on whether he would sack her if she had been found in breach of the ministerial code. He clearly had some get out of doing so scenario in his mind, but that really undermined his position from the campaign trail last year.

I guess there could be a minor or inconsequential breach of the code where there might have been scope to not sack her.

Or maybe it's better to avoid the further questions that might have followed if he'd said a firm yes.

 

[Xipe Totec]

Labour are pissing our money up the wall

Not yours, surely?

You're far too clever & far too rich to have to pay Little People's Tax, aren't you?

...aren't you?

 

[CXRAndy]

Not yours, surely?

You're far too clever & far too rich to have to pay Little People's Tax, aren't you?

...aren't you?

Infuriatingly yes mine too. If I didn't pay any tax then I would be committing evading tax. Thats illegal you know. We mitigate tax where possible.

I may have to pay the biggest tax bill of my entire life if our deal comes off. Taking advice on how to mitigate it down

 

[Pblakeney]

The loopholes give people careers exploiting them.

Industries change, people become redundant. It is the way of things.

 

[Pross]

I'm talking generally here.

In Rayners case its yet to be seen how this pans out with HMRC - likely she will get a penalty for 'careless' behaviour. However what did for her was the breach of the ministerial code.

As for Rayner being wealthy, that might soon be applicable in the past tense:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

Quote in case paywalled: admittedly there is some speculation but this does seem to stack up quite well.
"Angela Rayner could struggle to afford the mortgage on her £800,000 holiday home after having her salary heavily reduced, following her resignation from government office.
Ms Rayner also faces a hefty tax bill and possible “carelessness” penalty of more than £50,000 for failing to pay the correct stamp duty on the purchase of a flat that sparked her downfall.
In a further blow, Tories demanded she be stripped of her £16,876 severance payment owing to loss of office because in opposition she had voted to stop ministers under investigation getting a pay-off.

“If she has any integrity then surely she must decline any severance payment,” said Kevin Hollinrake, the Tory party chairman.
Ms Rayner’s salary will be cut from £161,409 to £93,904 – a drop of £67,505 – giving her little margin for error in making her monthly mortgage repayments.
Earlier this week, she admitted she had used her life savings to put a deposit down on the flat. She sold her 25 per cent stake in the family home in Ashton-under-Lyne in Great Manchester for £162,500 and used that to put down a £150,000 deposit on the Hove property.

Angela Rayner may struggle to keep up with payments following the loss of her well-remunerated job
Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.
The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.
Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.
HMRC will have to decide if she should pay the excess for ‘carelessness’ in punishment for originally paying just £30,000 in stamp duty rather than £70,000 on the Hove flat."

To a traditional working class Labour voter a salary of over £90k would be wealthy. The point being if you are earning that and trying to be ‘tax efficient’ you’ll get called out as a hypocrite when saying the wealthy need to pay their share (and understandably so) even if what you’ve done is legal.

 

[CXRAndy]

To a traditional working class Labour voter a salary of over £90k would be wealthy. The point being if you are earning that and trying to be ‘tax efficient’ you’ll get called out as a hypocrite when saying the wealthy need to pay their share (and understandably so) even if what you’ve done is legal.

Her tax efficiency was evading tax, whether through ignorance or deliberate.

Her hypocrisy was slagging off the tories, with holier than thou attitude.

I think she will need to sell the Hove flat.

I dont think there will be enough time for this debacle to settle, let her re emerge, atoned for her sins and then be parachuted into the south coast safe seat.

Especially if the rumours of early election are correct.

Roll on 2026

 

[Bromptonaut]

If it was ignorance, or carelessness, then it's not evasion and the hypocrisy charge falls away.

Nobody knows what resources she has to dig her way out of tax/penalties.

As to a safe seat on the South Coast we're in cloud cuckoo territory.

 

[CXRAndy]

If it was ignorance, or carelessness, then it's not evasion and the hypocrisy charge falls away.

Nobody knows what resources she has to dig her way out of tax/penalties.

As to a safe seat on the South Coast we're in cloud cuckoo territory.

Of course it could. Ignorance is no defence of the law.

She is guilty, broke ministerial code.

Hove is part of the constituency where the sitting labour MP has a thumping 20k+ majority

 

[Psamathe]

So he’s going to stop the boats within 2 weeks of Reform getting into power but won’t say how.

Things like this just fill me with despair.For years I've taken an attitude of the UK being a democracy and as an electorate we take "collective responsibility" eg I never did and never would vote for Johnson but "we" (UK) did elect him so I'm part of that.

But now I'm at the point where if people are stupid enough to believe such twaddle (generally without blindingly obvious questions like "How?") then no collective responsibility. I'm not going to take part blame or bear the consequences of blind stupidity of others. And I won't be subsidising it through our UK tax system, paying for stupidity of others on a imbecilic scale.

 

[All uphill]

But now I'm at the point where if people are stupid enough to believe such twaddle

Stupid or desperate, frustrated and angry?

When the Tories and Labour offer no hope or vision they open the door to grifters who will offer an appealing story.

 

[CXRAndy]

Stupid or desperate, frustrated and angry?

When the Tories and Labour offer no hope or vision they open the door to grifters who will offer an appealing story.

What is the alternative?

 

[icowden]

This just in for those wanting to know what goes on at the Reform party conference.
https://mrhenrymorris.substack.com/p/the-reform-conference-diary
https://mrhenrymorris.substack.com/p/the-reform-conference-diary-day-2

 

[Psamathe]

Farage now back-tracked on his stopping all small boats within two weeks of getting elected. Asked how, he's changed the promise (significantly).

Also and maybe more significantly their Party Conference giving a platform to vaccine denier

"One of Britain's most eminent oncologists Professor Angus Dalgleish said to me to share with you today that he thinks it's highly likely that the Covid vaccines have been a significant factor in the cancers in the royal family."
from https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62z4rd87nlo

Again, no surprises there.