Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Beebo]

Funny how Farage doesn’t care about his tax issues. It’s all baked into his persona. Every one knows he’s a shister.

When asked about the purchase after Reform UK’s conference, Mr Farage said: “I should have said ‘we’. All right? My partner bought it, so what?”
He said it was “her money” and “her asset”.
“I own none of it. But I just happen to spend some time there.”
He added: “I should have rephrased it. I didn’t want … to put her in the public domain.”

Mr Farage’s deputy Richard Tice had earlier said the party leader’s tax affairs are “irrelevant” to voters.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Funny how Farage doesn’t care about his tax issues. It’s all baked into his persona. Every one knows he’s a shister.

When asked about the purchase after Reform UK’s conference, Mr Farage said: “I should have said ‘we’. All right? My partner bought it, so what?”
He said it was “her money” and “her asset”.
“I own none of it. But I just happen to spend some time there.”
He added: “I should have rephrased it. I didn’t want … to put her in the public domain.”

Mr Farage’s deputy Richard Tice had earlier said the party leader’s tax affairs are “irrelevant” to voters.

And why did he say he bought it? To counter charges that he has no interest in Clackton, his constituency.

Dishonest.

 

[icowden]

Loving all the faux outrage that the only reason people are attacking her is because she's from a poor working class background and all of her critics are mysogynists and knuckle draggers. Funnily enough there's a thread on here running to 27 pages that is dedicated to hating on Nadine Dorries who also came from pretty humble beginnings and lived in a council house in Liverpool. If you want to see misogyny and barely concealed sexism it's all there in that thread. I don't have a dog in the fight and there are plenty of legitimate criticisms that I could level at Dorries, but some of those so vocal in their defence of Rayner are strangely quiet in the other thread. Just own it lads. She got caught bang to rights and she was a sh1t minister. It's ok to admit that you hoped for better and she let you down (along with rest of the cabinet).

Attention to detail.

Dorries completed school and trained as a Nurse. She was selected for Mid Beds as an MP as the party wanted a female candidate (she lies about this and claims it was based her performance and merit). She was notorious for taking money for not doing things (member of the Innovation, Universities, Sciecne and Skills Committee and attended 2% of sessions - the committee reformed and she failed to attend any sessions). She "employed" her daughter on a huge wage as office manager even though her daughter lived 100 miles from the office and recruited her sister as "senior secretary". She ran for election in 2015 and deliberately used character assassination. She fiddled her second home allowance, claimed £10k for a report that was never seen. She put the Commons logo on her blog to imply parliamentary endorsement. She then stated that her blog was 70% fiction when she had been claiming it was all true - leading to suggestions she had been deliberately misleading her constituents. She bunked off parliament to do I'm a Celeb and broke the Minister's code of conduct. She tried to get away without declaring the fee and failed. As Minister for Patient Safety she was the first MP to get Covid and failed to self-isolate. She also started retweeting doctored videos from the far right. She deliberately got Facebook to censor an interview with a British Ukranian soldier. She took on the brief of Secretary of State and failed to understand how Channel 4 is funded and made up that a reality show she did in 2010 used actors (it didn't). She sulked when she wasn't elevated to the lords and took it upon herself to try to undermine British democracy by interfering with the Commons Priveliges Committee investigation into Boris Johnson. She did not hold a surgery in her constituency of 3 years and said she would resign - she failed to do so, failed to do any work and didn't resign. She was kicked out by being appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of CHiltern.

So - Dorries, workshy liar, expensed fiddler and Boris Worshipper. She was duly discussed at length due to her fecklessness, slavish devotion to Boris and tendency to lie and fiddle expenses.

Rayner has proved to be a fairly decent and honest MP. You may not like her, you may not like her party, but it is undeniable that she has been a good MP. I put her in the same basket as Jess Philips and Anna Soubry.

 

[Shortfall]

Attention to detail.

Dorries completed school and trained as a Nurse. She was selected for Mid Beds as an MP as the party wanted a female candidate (she lies about this and claims it was based her performance and merit). She was notorious for taking money for not doing things (member of the Innovation, Universities, Sciecne and Skills Committee and attended 2% of sessions - the committee reformed and she failed to attend any sessions). She "employed" her daughter on a huge wage as office manager even though her daughter lived 100 miles from the office and recruited her sister as "senior secretary". She ran for election in 2015 and deliberately used character assassination. She fiddled her second home allowance, claimed £10k for a report that was never seen. She put the Commons logo on her blog to imply parliamentary endorsement. She then stated that her blog was 70% fiction when she had been claiming it was all true - leading to suggestions she had been deliberately misleading her constituents. She bunked off parliament to do I'm a Celeb and broke the Minister's code of conduct. She tried to get away without declaring the fee and failed. As Minister for Patient Safety she was the first MP to get Covid and failed to self-isolate. She also started retweeting doctored videos from the far right. She deliberately got Facebook to censor an interview with a British Ukranian soldier. She took on the brief of Secretary of State and failed to understand how Channel 4 is funded and made up that a reality show she did in 2010 used actors (it didn't). She sulked when she wasn't elevated to the lords and took it upon herself to try to undermine British democracy by interfering with the Commons Priveliges Committee investigation into Boris Johnson. She did not hold a surgery in her constituency of 3 years and said she would resign - she failed to do so, failed to do any work and didn't resign. She was kicked out by being appointed Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of CHiltern.

So - Dorries, workshy liar, expensed fiddler and Boris Worshipper. She was duly discussed at length due to her fecklessness, slavish devotion to Boris and tendency to lie and fiddle expenses.

Rayner has proved to be a fairly decent and honest MP. You may not like her, you may not like her party, but it is undeniable that she has been a good MP. I put her in the same basket as Jess Philips and Anna Soubry.

Ok. She was Secretary of State for Housing. How was she doing on her pledge to build 1.5 million new homes? I think you're giving her a lot more leeway than she deserves because she happens to be on your team.

 

[Shortfall]

I don't remember holding back on Johnson just because he's not a woman. Or any of the other hopeless Tory ministers come to that.

Hardly the point I'm making Brian though is it?

 

[icowden]

Ok. She was Secretary of State for Housing. How was she doing on her pledge to build 1.5 million new homes? I think you're giving her a lot more leeway than she deserves because she happens to be on your team.

Very much not on my team. I'm centrist. I've voted Lib Dem in the last 3 elections, and before that Conservative. I just don't believe in doing down MPs because I disagree with their policies, because they are female, because they are working class or because they have ginger hair.

I have not seen any reporting anywhere suggesting that Rayner has committed any major misdemeanours as a politician.

The pledge to build 1.5million new homes was a manifesto pledge. Rayner has stuck by it. So far she had implemented a New Homes Accelerator to speed up development and was looking into releasing specific grey belt land for homes. Estimates are that Labour had delivered 12.5% of the target by June 2025. They stated that the plan is to ramp up volumes.

https://fullfact.org/government-tracker/1-5-million-homes/

 

[briantrumpet]

Hardly the point I'm making Brian though is it?

You'd have to demonstrate that posters were not being even-handed in the extent of their criticism for the charge to stick, or that the criticism wasn't fair in itself. Her record wasn't exactly one of sparkling success, and she does have the knack of putting herself in the limelight.

 

[briantrumpet]

@Shortfall OK, I went back to the beginning of the thread, and there's misogyny there from a few posters, and that deserves to be called out, fair enough.

 

[CXRAndy]

Rayner has proved to be a fairly decent and honest MP. You may not like her, you may not like her party, but it is undeniable that she has been a good MP. I put her in the same basket as Jess Philips and Anna Soubry

Jess Philips, the one who admitted to knowing of police rape gangs and did nothing.

Anna Soubry- wine swilling remainer

Thats why you like her

Rayner, tax evading, trust fund raider, exposed, resigned in shame

 

[Shortfall]

Very much not on my team. I'm centrist. I've voted Lib Dem in the last 3 elections, and before that Conservative. I just don't believe in doing down MPs because I disagree with their policies, because they are female, because they are working class or because they have ginger hair.

I have not seen any reporting anywhere suggesting that Rayner has committed any major misdemeanours as a politician.

The pledge to build 1.5million new homes was a manifesto pledge. Rayner has stuck by it. So far she had implemented a New Homes Accelerator to speed up development and was looking into releasing specific grey belt land for homes. Estimates are that Labour had delivered 12.5% of the target by June 2025. They stated that the plan is to ramp up volumes.

So I followed your link and found this

"Our verdict

We don’t expect official figures on net additional dwellings—the government’s metric for this target—until the autumn. However estimates published so far suggest the government needs to pick up the pace of building to hit its target in the current parliament."

Then there's also this from The House Builders Federation


View: https://twitter.com/SimonDanczuk/status/1964580851695702254?s=19



But fair enough I'm not going to play ping pong with you over the figures.

 

[BoldonLad]

That's got her bang to rights then. Why is there any debate about it?

"It looks like she thought". Now I'm convinced.



You may not be privy to Rayner's thought processes but you are doing a very good job of imagining them...in detail.

I can’t claim credit, my guesses are no better than the supporters of Ms Rayner.

 

[Shortfall]

@Shortfall OK, I went back to the beginning of the thread, and there's misogyny there from a few posters, and that deserves to be called out, fair enough.

I appreciate your honesty. Fair play

 

[Bromptonaut]

Thus the actual rules are published on the internet to all and are explicit and very clear and even Google will point you there.

While that is true it's more complex than 'if you put property in trust for kids you still pay higher rate stamp duty'.

There are some types of trust, the beneficiary being a disabled child is one, where that is not the case. Rayner thought that was the case here.

Trusts, tax and Inland Revenue deeming clauses make it a corner of the law where you need a real expert.

 

[Dorset Boy]

While that is true it's more complex than 'if you put property in trust for kids you still pay higher rate stamp duty'.

There are some types of trust, the beneficiary being a disabled child is one, where that is not the case. Rayner thought that was the case here.

Trusts, tax and Inland Revenue deeming clauses make it a corner of the law where you need a real expert.

As you allude to, and as I have said a few times upthread, the use of trusts is complex.
Therefore you would be a fool to not take professional / expert advice around the taxation position when undertaking the various transactions Rayner did, especially given that the conveyancers told her to do that.
And evenmoreso given you are deputy PM, and have been a savage attack dog against others who you have perceived to not have their tax affairs properly in order.
All this brings her judgement into question,

 

[Bromptonaut]

Your claim may have credit if she had resigned the moment the allegations came out. She didn't, she clung to her position and only resigned when she knew she was about to be sacked

When the allegation first surfaced it was little more than the wholly explicable suggestion that she'd paid sole/single home stamp duty at Hove while telling Tameside Council that the Ashton property was her main home.

As is the way now with SM etc people who knew their stuff asked the how? question regarding removing herself from the deeds for the family home.

That was the point at which it began to unravel for her and she self referred to Sir Laurie.

I don't think, given what went on under BoJo, that Starmer would have had any option but to sack her if she failed to resign but as she resigned the questio is, strictly speaking, moot.