Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[midlandsgrimpeur]

As has been pointed out before, a lot of Reform voters used to be Labour voters.

As has been pointed out before there is no actual data/statistics to prove this, it is speculation and anecdotal.

I can quite simply say nearly all Reform voters used to be Conservative voters. Neither of us can prove it.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

May be more stringent but in my humble opinion not stringent enough - as evidenced by the numbers, hence my point above.

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinion.

Simple question though, what material benefit to the UK will a lower net migration figure bring? How would it improve our economy for example?

 

[CXRAndy]

1. Oh yes they do, and that is what Reform are offering.
2. Is that why just 12 months after 15 years of Tory government, people think Labour should have sorted everything out by now?
3. I agree with you and also regret that Starmer is neither of those things.

I'll just remind you, Biden said the southern border couldn't be sorted without billions and time to sort it out.

Trump sorted it 90 days- continues to be the same now

Turns out you just need a new President or Prime minister

 

[CXRAndy]

As has been pointed out before there is no actual data/statistics to prove this, it is speculation and anecdotal.

I can quite simply say nearly all Reform voters used to be Conservative voters. Neither of us can prove it.

They've come from somewhere. Surveys point to both Labour and Conservative voters have changed allegiance to Reform

 

[CXRAndy]

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinion.

Simple question though, what material benefit to the UK will a lower net migration figure bring? How would it improve our economy for example?

Wages will rise, British jobs for British. Less traffic, less hospital, doctors working load. No need to build millions of houses just to house migrants. Lower welfare bill.

 

[Pross]

No, just sticking to to the point about the Libs.

You agreed with me when I said that, like the Tories, the Lib Dems best chance is to be a partner in coalition. You literally said "I'm glad we agree" when I made that comment.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I'll just remind you, Biden said the southern border couldn't be sorted without billions and time to sort it out.

Trump sorted it 90 days- continues to be the same now

Turns out you just need a new President or Prime minister

Yep. Someone who doesn’t give a damn about treating people properly. As long as they’re foreigners or people who disagree with him.

 

[C R]

What is the optimum level of net migration to the UK?
How have you arrived at any figure you may have in mind, other than “stands to reason”.

0 brown people. The answer includes the reasoning.

 

[BoldonLad]

Nobody said it wasnt. Remind me who was in charge from 2020 to 2024?

I note the Graph title includes the word "Estimates". the graph show 60 years of history, dont we KNOW how much immigration has happened?

 

[Rusty Nails]

I note the Graph title includes the word "Estimates". the graph show 60 years of history, dont we KNOW how much immigration has happened?

We can never know 100%. Everything has to be an estimate.

 

[BoldonLad]

We can never know 100%. Everything has to be an estimate.

Fodder to the "control of our borders" brigade, I would have thought.

 

[Pblakeney]

I note the Graph title includes the word "Estimates". the graph show 60 years of history, dont we KNOW how much immigration has happened?

I must confess that I’ve never understood how we know how many people come in illegally.
Surely some get past the net and are unaccounted for?

 

[BoldonLad]

I must confess that I’ve never understood how we know how many people come in illegally.
Surely some get past the net and are unaccounted for?

Yes, I would agree, but, one would have thought we knew how many arrive / depart via "legal" means, ie via Passport Control.

Plus, of course, even those who "get past the net" will need NHI Number, NHS Number some point, I would have thought, in order to access Welfare System (including Pensions) and/or Health Services. Perhaps these systems are in chaos too?

 

[Pblakeney]

Yes, I would agree, but, one would have thought we knew how many arrive / depart via "legal" means, ie via Passport Control.

Plus, of course, even those who "get past the net" will need NHI Number, NHS Number some point, I would have thought, in order to access Welfare System (including Pensions) and/or Health Services. Perhaps these systems are in chaos too?

Point 1. IIRC we have never counted those leaving. Legally or otherwise.
Point 2. There is a percentage who come in illegally, work illegally, never pay taxes, and never receive benefits. Fairly sure they'd get treated at A&E if they just rocked up but that's just my perception.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I must confess that I’ve never understood how we know how many people come in illegally.
Surely some get past the net and are unaccounted for?

It is not really classed as illegal but 'irregular migration' which accounts for anyone coming into the UK without authorisation (i.e. small boats), anyone overstaying a visa, anyone not leaving after a rejected asylum claim, and any child born to an unauthorised migrant. This includes detected and undetected persons and obviously those appearing in data will be detected.

Irregular or unathorised migrants can still apply for asylum at which point they become recorded as 'regular'.