Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[AndyRM]

They haven't failed yet. But there is no point whinging about it as if they are useless, when many previous govts have been equally useless.
We can add them to the list at the next election, or until there is no prospect of hitting the target.

As has been pointed out, it's better to have a target of 1.5m and build 1m than to have a target of 500k and succeed. People don't usually underestimate when setting targets.

With a username like Shortfall, you'd figure they'd be used to targets not being met, or be sympathetic, at least.

 

[Shortfall]

They haven't failed yet. But there is no point whinging about it as if they are useless, when many previous govts have been equally useless.
We can add them to the list at the next election, or until there is no prospect of hitting the target.

As has been pointed out, it's better to have a target of 1.5m and build 1m than to have a target of 500k and succeed. People don't usually underestimate when setting targets.

I don't think they're likely to build 1 million let alone 1.5 but we'll count up at the end of the parliament. As for my "whinging" about their failure isn't what this forum is about? I bet you were all over the Tories broken promises and failures and you would have been right to have done, so it comes over as a bit lame to be giving Starmer a few pass because previous government's haven't built enough houses either. It was his pledge and he knew it was BS when he made it.

 

[Shortfall]

With a username like Shortfall, you'd figure they'd be used to targets not being met, or be sympathetic, at least.

Hilarious! Ouch, there goes another rib!

 

[icowden]

As for my "whinging" about their failure isn't what this forum is about?

Fair point

I bet you were all over the Tories broken promises and failures and you would have been right to have done

Nope, mostly pissed off with the racism and Brexit and rampant financial mismanagement.

, so it comes over as a bit lame to be giving Starmer a few pass because previous government's haven't built enough houses either.

Not giving him a pass. Just saying that it's a bit early to pass judgement.

It was his pledge and he knew it was BS when he made it.

Again - Govt moves slowly. Let's see where he is by year 4 / year 5

Side note - for a real insight into just how difficult it is do get anything done in government, read Rory Stewart's "Politics on the Edge". A fascinating insight into the way the system doesn't work.

 

[Shortfall]

Fair point

Nope, mostly pissed off with the racism and Brexit and rampant financial mismanagement.

Not giving him a pass. Just saying that it's a bit early to pass judgement.

Again - Govt moves slowly. Let's see where he is by year 4 / year 5

Side note - for a real insight into just how difficult it is do get anything done in government, read Rory Stewart's "Politics on the Edge". A fascinating insight into the way the system doesn't work.

In a recent debate on here I quoted Dominic Cummins basically saying similar to Rory Stewart - that it's impossible for any government to get its program through for a variety of reasons from a politicised Civil Service to Ministers getting tied up in perpetual legal battles as well as the enshitification of our political class who are mostly incompetent. The usual suspects batted off the suggestion "because Cummins is evil and mad" but they might give Rory Stewart a more sympathetic hearing because he's one of them. Who knows?

 

[Psamathe]

They haven't failed yet. But there is no point whinging about it as if they are useless, when many previous govts have been equally useless.
We can add them to the list at the next election, or until there is no prospect of hitting the target.

As has been pointed out, it's better to have a target of 1.5m and build 1m than to have a target of 500k and succeed. People don't usually underestimate when setting targets.

I think it's more complex as much depends on what you are building and at what cost to society and at what irreprable damage to the environment. Profits from developers should not be the primary aim yet to a large degree it's what is happening.

 

[Pblakeney]

I think it's more complex as much depends on what you are building and at what cost to society and at what irreprable damage to the environment. Profits from developers should not be the primary aim yet to a large degree it's what is happening.

Capitalism at it's best/worst.

 

[CXRAndy]

Let's see where he is by year 4 / year 5

If the rumours are to be believed 4/weeks 5 he be gone.

It will be one of the great fallen from grace stories

 

[BoldonLad]

In a recent debate on here I quoted Dominic Cummins basically saying similar to Rory Stewart - that it's impossible for any government to get its program through for a variety of reasons from a politicised Civil Service to Ministers getting tied up in perpetual legal battles as well as the enshitification of our political class who are mostly incompetent. The usual suspects batted off the suggestion "because Cummins is evil and mad" but they might give Rory Stewart a more sympathetic hearing because he's one of them. Who knows?

I haven’t finished reading one of Brian’s book recommendations, yet, but, it has a similar theme ie Incompetence of the Political class.

 

[briantrumpet]

I haven’t finished reading one of Brian’s book recommendations, yet, but, it has a similar theme ie Incompetence of the Political class.

I think that Dunt's thesis is that the dysfunctional system is the cause of the, erm, dysfunction, i.e. is actually inevitable.

 

[BoldonLad]

I think that Dunt's thesis is that the dysfunctional system is the cause of the, erm, dysfunction, i.e. is actually inevitable.

Well, as I say, I haven’t finished reading it yet, but, it does suggest that other jurisdictions achieve better outcomes, which does not suggest inevitability to me.