Riot!

[monkers]

Then he should probably have said that rather than what he did say.

N tells me that these ex tempore decisions as noticed by @Bromptonaut are not binding on future court hearings or decisions, therefore the ''thin end of the wedge'' claim of yours is ''misdirected'' to quote N.

Edit. Apology, you said ''slippery slope'', but does amount to the same thing.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The judge spoke bollix and should correct his statement, but just because he said it doesn't mean it will happen in reality, in fact there is no chance that it will actually happen.

Edit: beaten to it by Monkers, using legal terms.

 

[AuroraSaab]

OK, so watching a riot is a victimless, passive activity and the victims of that riot will not suffer added distress by knowing that other people decided to watch.

Well it's not very nice, but turning out to watch somebody looting ShoeZone is hardly the same as viewing child abuse photos. The irony being that possession of child abuse material often results in no jail time anyway whereas watching somebody loot ShoeZone might if Judge Rafferty is to be believed.

Having googled the judge it looks like he was only appointed a year ago so sounds a bit like his inexperience has led him to overstep the mark with his comments. Really unhelpful though.

 

[BoldonLad]

I suppose it passes for entertainment until the football starts.

Football in Sunderland is not entertainment 😊

 

[Rusty Nails]

Football in Sunderland is not entertainment 😊

At least it's not far for them to go and watch Newcastle.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

This is Glasgow a short time ago (photo from Stand Up to Racism).

Apparently four guys turned up with one placard saying 'Asylum frauds out' and were quickly outnumbered by hundreds of decent citizens.

(Do you see that tall pink building in the background? It says "People Make Glasgow". 😍)

 

[Bromptonaut]

Me neither.

He needs to clarify his statement, otherwise journalists, and people peacefully protecting a hotel or immigration lawyer's office will be subject to arrest and imprisonment.

That would be quite wrong.

I don't think it can be, or will be used that way. He's pretty low down the judicial pecking order so it's not got any value as a precedent. It's also in NI and not GB/England and Wales.

He's making a point on the facts of 2-3 defendants who cam before him with what seem to be dubious claims that they just went for a look.

If people who really were innocent bystanders end up remanded in custody they'll have an excellent chance of release on appeal.

 

[AndyRM]

This was Newcastle a bit earlier. I recognise quite a few folk there. Much of the city centre was boarded up which was a depressing sight but thankfully those fears appear to have been unfounded.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If people who really were innocent bystanders end up remanded in custody they'll have an excellent chance of release on appeal.

That doesn’t give me much comfort as I sit in the cell!

I don't think it can be, or will be used that way. He's pretty low down the judicial pecking order so it's not got any value as a precedent. It's also in NI and not GB/England and Wales.

It's the uncertainty that is worrying.

I wouldn't want to be legitimately present at a riot and risk my liberty on the misinterpretation of his remark by a policeman.

I'm not sure what difference it makes being NI and not GB. It's part of the UK.

 

[Mr Celine]

I'm not sure what difference it makes being NI and not GB. It's part of the UK.

For starters I'm sure you're aware that Scotland has a different legal system. Decisions made by other jurisdictions can be used in argument but they aren't binding.
The same may be true vis a vis England/Wales and Northern Ireland. (IANAL).

 

[glasgowcyclist]

For starters I'm sure you're aware that Scotland has a different legal system. Decisions made by other jurisdictions can be used in argument but they aren't binding.
The same may be true vis a vis England/Wales and Northern Ireland. (IANAL).

I do understand all of that.

I'm not suggesting that the judge's view will be applied outwith NI, I am expressing concern for citizens there who may legitimately be present at a riot and yet may find themselves in custody.

 

[Rusty Nails]

That doesn’t give me much comfort as I sit in the cell!



It's the uncertainty that is worrying.

I wouldn't want to be legitimately present at a riot and risk my liberty on the misinterpretation of his remark by a policeman.

I'm not sure what difference it makes being NI and not GB. It's part of the UK.

It won't happen!

One comment from a Judge low down in the pecking order will not have any influence.

This is a manufactured controversy. Police officers, other than an occasional rogue one which no-one can legislate for or one acting on a wrong identification, will not arrest a bystander based on what one random judge mistakenly says.

I know it is not always possible to avoid being an innocent bystander caught up in a riot/disorder, but I really cannot understand the mentality of people who actually go to look at the rioting.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If you were to find yourself in front of that judge I think you might feel you weren't going to get a fair hearing. His comments do nothing but bolster the idea that the law and judicial system aren't applied fairly.

 

[Bromptonaut]

If you were to find yourself in front of that judge I think you might feel you weren't going to get a fair hearing. His comments do nothing but bolster the idea that the law and judicial system aren't applied fairly.

But you won't be in front of him unless you're in NI. And I don't think for a minute that Police dealing with (a) evident bystanders and people caught up in a ruck and (b) participants in disorder who they think did a runner are going to be bothered with (a).

If he were in England/Wales and in a Senior Courts role and had been misinterpreted or was 'wrong spoken' then re-issuing his extempore judgement for a written one might be worth while. However, English terms he's a District Judge or what used to be called a Stipendiary Magistrate, nothing hangs on it.

 

[AndyRM]

Absolutely love that they mention Greggs, like there's not three more roughly 500m from the Bigg Market.

Never change Newcastle, never change...