Schooliform

[Electric_Andy]

They placed a child in isolation for wearing the 'wrong' sort of almost-identical grey skirt.

My son would have had the same treatment if we had not followed the rules. As I said, this example is nit-picking but they get to set whatever rules they want, so parents are free to choose another school if they don't like it

 

[newfhouse]

they get to set whatever rules they want

What is the benefit of having uniform rules?

parents are free to choose another school if they don't like it

This isn’t really an option for most, is it?

 

[C R]

but this is exactly what the schools are trying to prevent i.e. kids getting picked on becasue they're not wearing the coolest type of black trousers or shoes.

Having gone to school in a country where there's no school uniforms I always found this reason for having to wear uniform the least convincing. We had plenty of bullying and picking upon in our schools, and clothing was nowhere near the main reasons.

I find the whole obsession with uniform and policing of what students wear, and the effort schools spend on it really puzzling. It seems to me that it is a battle that really didn't need to be fought.

 

[icowden]

What is the benefit of having uniform rules?

The benefit is that the children all wear the same thing so there is no bullying because Nike's are cool and you only have poundland trainers etc.
Kids always push the boundaries of uniforms. It's down to the school to enforce it.

At my daughters school they get some freedom to choose their own clothes in 6th form, but if the clothing is inappropriate (mini skirts for example) there will be a letter to parents, or the parent may be called to bring appropriate clothing in. In my daughters first 6th form games session, some of the older girls decided that "black PE shorts" meant booty shorts. They were given baggy PE shorts to wear from lost property and told not to wear inappropriate attire.

 

[C R]

The benefit is that the children all wear the same thing so there is no bullying because Nike's are cool and you only have poundland trainers etc.
Kids always push the boundaries of uniforms. It's down to the school to enforce it.

Any evidence to back that up? If anything, having to buy school uniform doubles the costs of clothing for families, as they need one set of clothes for school and one set for outside of school.

 

[Electric_Andy]

Having gone to school in a country where there's no school uniforms I always found this reason for having to wear uniform the least convincing

I tend to think the opposite. When I see school kids on TV (mostly in the USA) with no uniform, I think it looks terrible and scruffy. The vast majority of English schools obviously share this view. The other advantage is that you can wear school trousers and blazer multiple times to school without washing them, whereas I doubt any kid in jeans and t-shirt would wear the same jeans and t-shirt in every day. At 6th form it was wear what you want, and I genuinely found it stressful choosing (what was clean) from my wardrobe so that I was wearing something different, otherwsie if you wore what you did yesterday then people would comment.

The other aspect is identity. If the kids are doing something nice or naughty outside of school (i.e. on the way/way back) they can be identified by their uniform. I find this whole idea about freedom of choice quite baffling. Out of all the things they are forced to do at school like homework, classwork, PE etc, surely wearing correct uniform is the easy bit. It was quite telling at my school; all the ones who were good students and now have good jobs, didn't utter a word about uniform. It was only the naughty kids who were constantly being pulled up for it. Maybe there's a correlation!

 

[newfhouse]

Are we all agreed then? The purpose of uniforms is to ensure children grow into obedient worker-consumers and woe betide any that decide to retain any spark of rebellious instinct. Where we differ is whether that's good or bad.

Strange, I can't think of any social progress, artistic development, or engineering leap forward that didn't come from kicking against the pricks.

 

[Electric_Andy]

they can do all the rebelling they want when they're adults and have a good education

 

[newfhouse]

they can do all the rebelling they want when they're adults and have a good education

How does failing to adhere to arbitrary uniform regulations interfere with a good education? Apart from crushing spirit, sanctions, and exclusions, obviously.

 

[C R]

I tend to think the opposite. When I see school kids on TV (mostly in the USA) with no uniform, I think it looks terrible and scruffy. The vast majority of English schools obviously share this view. The other advantage is that you can wear school trousers and blazer multiple times to school without washing them, whereas I doubt any kid in jeans and t-shirt would wear the same jeans and t-shirt in every day. At 6th form it was wear what you want, and I genuinely found it stressful choosing (what was clean) from my wardrobe so that I was wearing something different, otherwsie if you wore what you did yesterday then people would comment.

The other aspect is identity. If the kids are doing something nice or naughty outside of school (i.e. on the way/way back) they can be identified by their uniform. I find this whole idea about freedom of choice quite baffling. Out of all the things they are forced to do at school like homework, classwork, PE etc, surely wearing correct uniform is the easy bit. It was quite telling at my school; all the ones who were good students and now have good jobs, didn't utter a word about uniform. It was only the naughty kids who were constantly being pulled up for it. Maybe there's a correlation!

If we are talking anecdata, in high school I wore denim jackets with heavy metal patches, and, in my final year, long hair. Think Eddie Munson in Stranger Things. This wasn't an uncommon look. However, I was one of the top students, and was never in trouble. On the other hand, there was a group of "cool" guys that always wore nice clothes, and looked like butter wouldn't melt, and were regularly in trouble. Last I heard, two of them were doing time for drug trafficking.

 

[matticus]

Strange, I can't think of any social progress, artistic development, or engineering leap forward that didn't come from kicking against the pricks.

You were the kid who called the teachers cruel nicknames ... when only other kids could hear you.

 

[C R]

You were the kid who called the teachers cruel nicknames ... when only other kids could hear you.

So?

 

[theclaud]

Excessive discipline and disproportionate punishment over trivial transgression of arbitrary rules seems to me to be barely indistinguishable from bullying. If you want people to respect rules, they need to see that they have a rationale.

 

[matticus]

So?

oops - have I touched a nerve?

 

[newfhouse]

You were the kid who called the teachers cruel nicknames ... when only other kids could hear you.

Only the ones that deployed cruel and unusual punishments for minor transgressions.