Schooliform

[Rusty Nails]

Excessive discipline and disproportionate punishment over trivial transgression of arbitrary rules seems to me to be barely indistinguishable from bullying. If you want people to respect rules, they need to see that they have a rationale.

True...depending on one's use of the comparative terms excessive, disproportionate, trivial, arbitrary and whether one agrees with the rationale.

That's the problem with school uniform rules, they are seen differently by different people. They can be seen as a sensible way to instill a form of discipline within the rules of a particular society or they can be viewed as a way of getting kids used to being subjugated by authoritarian regimes.

My view is that it gets kids to understand that very important important lesson in life "sh*t happens - deal with it".

 

[matticus]

Only the ones that deployed cruel and unusual punishments for minor transgressions.

Was it the fuel for your leaps forward in social progress, artistic development, or engineering?

 

[icowden]

Any evidence to back that up? If anything, having to buy school uniform doubles the costs of clothing for families, as they need one set of clothes for school and one set for outside of school.

It would seem there is a fair bit...
https://price-buckland.co.uk/blog/does-uniform-really-help-reduce-bullying/#:~:text=The DofE has also found,who do not fit in.

It may also help with stress and anxiety in that it removes the concern about "what to wear to school today" which is a particular issue for people with social difficulties such as autism.

 

[newfhouse]

Was it the fuel for your leaps forward in social progress, artistic development, or engineering?

I’m still waiting for the great leap forward.

 

[C R]

It would seem there is a fair bit...
https://price-buckland.co.uk/blog/does-uniform-really-help-reduce-bullying/#:~:text=The DofE has also found,who do not fit in.

It may also help with stress and anxiety in that it removes the concern about "what to wear to school today" which is a particular issue for people with social difficulties such as autism.

Not really very convincing, mostly parents feel or think the uniform helps. Any actual studies comparing levels of bullying between countries with widespread uniform use and countries (not just the US) where uniforms are not used?

 

[C R]

oops - have I touched a nerve?

I followed the advice of Prof Keating, I sucked the marrow out of life, but didn't intend chocking on the bone.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Not really very convincing, mostly parents feel or think the uniform helps. Any actual studies comparing levels of bullying between countries with widespread uniform use and countries (not just the US) where uniforms are not used?

Don't waste time on piddly little studies, I think we need an independent judicial inquiry to decide this important matter.

The future state of this country depends on it.

 

[theclaud]

My view is that it gets kids to understand that very important important lesson in life "sh*t happens - deal with it".

Is that more important than the lesson that there are often people with power who will take out their inadequacies on you, and it's important to resist?

 

[Rusty Nails]

Is that more important than the lesson that there are often people with power who will take out their inadequacies on you, and it's important to resist?

If there has to be a hierarchy of importance to lessons, then yes. It is a much more basic lesson that is a foundation for many others.

Making the assumption that people in power often do what they do because of their inadequacies, and, more importantly, deciding which rules that applies to, is a much more complicated lesson that also requires an understanding of human psychology and will take years after they have left school to understand.

 

[icowden]

Is that more important than the lesson that there are often people with power who will take out their inadequacies on you, and it's important to resist?

Yes, but we can't get rid of the teachers.

 

[Ian H]

Paul Staines (Guido Fawkes) and Tony McNulty (MPs' expenses scandal) both went to this school, though they don't feature in this photo. Strict uniform code, though it looks like 'grey' (as in trousers) was not specific enough.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes, but we can't get rid of the teachers.

Why?

 

[multitool]

Excessive discipline and disproportionate punishment over trivial transgression of arbitrary rules seems to me to be barely indistinguishable from bullying. If you want people to respect rules, they need to see that they have a rationale.

That's one view.

An alternative view might be to provide crystal clear binary rules that kids and parents can a) understand and more saliently b) not argue with.

I pulled my daughter out of a school where kids were arguing the toss over absolutely everything...mobiles, make up, hair, uniform, equipment, behaviour etc etc to the point that not much learning was going on because teachers' time and energy was spent on futile crap.

I'd far rather a school that said 'this is the uniform, these are the rules, either follow them or fark off', and then everybody's time and energy was spent on positive things.

In a sense you are right. The rules are arbitrary. But if you are going to have rules then people need to stick to them. I doubt the school gives a shìt about what shade of grey the skirt is. I suspect it is more about having a rule and not spending time debating it.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It always sounds alien to me this kind of topics, i mean the claims are always in more or less words ''there is no bully-ing if they all where the same'', ''you need to wear an uniform when you go to work too'', ''they need to learn discipline ''
However looking at the fact that the dutch education system has 100+ different school system almost none of them including or enforcing uniforms i think i have enough authority to say dutch students do not look more or less, bullied disciplined or less prepared to wear a uniform to work.

And the less bullying, the first week a lived here i read about a student being kicked into the hospital with severe brain damage as a result of bullying and the head teacher saying it's just boys being boys.

Suffice to say i did not move to the uk for the great education system.

A teacher needs to have the respect, and bring that over to the students, it has nothing to do with what their wearing because a Marks and spencers uniform looks different than a Tesco one hence the claimed equality is not there.

 

[theclaud]

It always sounds alien to me this kind of topics, i mean the claims are always in more or less words ''there is no bully-ing if they all where the same'', ''you need to wear an uniform when you go to work too'', ''they need to learn discipline ''
However looking at the fact that the dutch education system has 100+ different school system almost none of them including or enforcing uniforms i think i have enough authority to say dutch students do not look more or less, bullied disciplined or less prepared to wear a uniform to work.

And the less bullying, the first week a lived here i read about a student being kicked into the hospital with severe brain damage as a result of bullying and the head teacher saying it's just boys being boys.

Suffice to say i did not move to the uk for the great education system.

A teacher needs to have the respect, and bring that over to the students, it has nothing to do with what their wearing because a Marks and spencers uniform looks different than a Tesco one hence the claimed equality is not there.

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