Schooliform

[Julia9054]

Draconian toilet measures aren't helpful. Staff who aren't teaching doing a regular corridor and toilet patrol is how it's been dealt with in my schools. Not infallible as it depends on the layout and staff numbers but better than banning loo visits altogether.

Staff who aren't teaching are prepping lessons and marking.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Staff who aren't teaching are prepping lessons and marking.

Yes, and they can take 5 minutes out of that to do a corridor sweep near their classroom. It's not every teacher in every free lesson. Senior staff have less contact time and can and do walk round corridors too. This is how it's been done in every school I've been in. It allows you to pick up on which kids are constantly going to the loo and those who are sent out of lessons as well.

I've never known a teacher be such a jobsworth that they wouldn't do something that benefits the whole staff in the long run.

 

[Electric_Andy]

Draconian toilet measures aren't helpful.

The rules have now been changed according to my son. You are not allowed to go to the toilet in the first 15 mins or the last 15 mins of the lesson. You can go at any time if you have a toilet pass, but in order to get one your parent must have a meeting with the deputy head. So, searches and locked toilets have been sacked due to so many complaints.

 

[multitool]

Any teacher will know if there is a pupil constantly seeking to go to the toilet,

How though?

Looking at my children's timetables, it would be very simple to work out a rota of lessons to ask to use toilet so as not to alert a given teacher to excessive use.

Unless there is some sort of database where teachers log toilet visits I'm not sure how any teachers would know who is leaving other teachers' lessons. The only sort of schools that would have this sort of system, I suspect, will be the RTL type schools who remove all the grey areas.

The notion that senior leaders are perma-free and omnipresent is, I would expect, unlikely. I know some SLs and their work load is immense.

Lastly, I've checked my childrens' timetables. They are never more than 55 minutes away from having an opportunity for a piss. At this point, given that some are proclaiming the right to ask to go to the loo (whether you need a pee or not) to be some sort of universal human right, do the teaching staff have this right? Can they just walk out of a lesson* leaving the class alone to their own devices for 5-10 minutes as they walk to find a staff toilet, use it, and return?

If not, why not. It's a human right, yes?

*I suspect a teacher leaving a class could be grounds for a charge of gross misconduct.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Teachers talk about the kids all the time. They know who the challenging ones are. The ones constantly asking to go to lessons are the same ones who are often late and turn up without equipment. Mostly it's not about things like vaping it's about avoiding doing any work. It's not feasible to have a 100% ban on loo visits because there will for example be girls on their period who need to urgently go quite frequently. If you have a sensible but consistent policy the students get used to it and you can reduce the number who try it on whilst not making life difficult for the genuine ones.

 

[icowden]

How though?
Looking at my children's timetables, it would be very simple to work out a rota of lessons to ask to use toilet so as not to alert a given teacher to excessive use.

Yes - by excessive I mean always asking to go to the loo in the same teacher's lessons for example.

The notion that senior leaders are perma-free and omnipresent is, I would expect, unlikely. I know some SLs and their work load is immense.

Also agree. Unless you have the luxury of more staff, the notion of corridor sweeps isn't going to happen. Although it doesn't have to be SLs. Subject teachers often have bits of free time here and there.

Lastly, I've checked my childrens' timetables. They are never more than 55 minutes away from having an opportunity for a piss. At this point, given that some are proclaiming the right to ask to go to the loo (whether you need a pee or not) to be some sort of universal human right, do the teaching staff have this right? Can they just walk out of a lesson* leaving the class alone to their own devices for 5-10 minutes as they walk to find a staff toilet, use it, and return?

I'd say that they can, but it's frowned upon. In Primary, they would need a TA to manage the class for 5 mins. In secondary, they would have to be confident of class behaviour or ask another member of staff to pop in and watch the class for 5 mins.

 

[multitool]

Teachers talk about the kids all the time.

I can see how that would be the case in a rural primary, but in a large school on an extended site with 1500 students??? Where are these conversations going to take place? And when?

As far as I can tell, the old days of teachers retiring to the staff room at lunch and break are long gone. Have you spoken to any teachers recently? I have, and 'working conditions' are cited as a major cause of recruitment crisis. Part of the poor working conditions is the isolation of staff and no amenities.

 

[BoldonLad]

I can see how that would be the case in a rural primary, but in a large school on an extended site with 1500 students??? Where are these conversations going to take place? And when?

As far as I can tell, the old days of teachers retiring to the staff room at lunch and break are long gone. Have you spoken to any teachers recently? I have, and 'working conditions' are cited as a major cause of recruitment crisis. Part of the poor working conditions is the isolation of staff and no amenities.

Daughter No2 is a (Maths) teacher in a large (2,000 pupil) State "Academy", in what is euphemistically referred to as a "deprived area".

She knows all of the pupils she teaches, by name, plus, she knows those who she may not teach, but, require "watching". I doubt she (Daughter No2) is an exception, @AuroraSaab may have a view on that?

 

[multitool]

Daughter No2 is a (Maths) teacher in a large (2,000 pupil) State "Academy", in what is euphemistically referred to as a "deprived area".

She knows all of the pupils she teaches, by name, plus, she knows those who she may not teach, but, require "watching". I doubt she (Daughter No2) is an exception, @AuroraSaab may have a view on that?

OK, but ask her how often she gets to actually talk to staff outside of her own area, and whether she knows which students ask other teachers to leave the class for the loo.

I stand to be corrected, but I'd be amazed if teaching staff in an organisation of that size know as much about what actually happens as they think they do (outside of pastoral staff)

 

[AuroraSaab]

Yes - by excessive I mean always asking to go to the loo in the same teacher's lessons for example.

Also agree. Unless you have the luxury of more staff, the notion of corridor sweeps isn't going to happen. Although it doesn't have to be SLs. Subject teachers often have bits of free time here and there.


I'd say that they can, but it's frowned upon. In Primary, they would need a TA to manage the class for 5 mins. In secondary, they would have to be confident of class behaviour or ask another member of staff to pop in and watch the class for 5 mins.

It was Multitool who made that post that you are replying to, IC, not me.

 

[BoldonLad]

OK, but ask her how often she gets to actually talk to staff outside of her own area, and whether she knows which students ask other teachers to leave the class for the loo.

I stand to be corrected, but I'd be amazed if teaching staff in an organisation of that size know as much about what actually happens as they think they do (outside of pastoral staff)

Do you mean subject area?, if not what area (age, ability, etc).

Might take a while (I don't see her daily), but, I will ask.

 

[multitool]

I meant physical area. Are buildings arranged in subject areas?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I can see how that would be the case in a rural primary, but in a large school on an extended site with 1500 students??? Where are these conversations going to take place? And when?

Less likely to be in the main staffroom but most departments have their own offices where staff mix.

Have you spoken to any teachers recently?

Yes, loads. I'm out with several tonight including senior management team bods.

I have, and 'working conditions' are cited as a major cause of recruitment crisis. Part of the poor working conditions is the isolation of staff and no amenities.

The biggest issue is behaviour of the kids, plus volume of workload, much of it in the evenings and weekends, leading to stress.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...sible-three-teachers-on-why-they-are-quitting

 

[BoldonLad]

I meant physical area. Are buildings arranged in subject areas?

No idea, but, as I said, I will ask.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Daughter No2 is a (Maths) teacher in a large (2,000 pupil) State "Academy", in what is euphemistically referred to as a "deprived area".

She knows all of the pupils she teaches, by name, plus, she knows those who she may not teach, but, require "watching". I doubt she (Daughter No2) is an exception, @AuroraSaab may have a view on that?

Apart from mixing with their department colleagues, most staff are form tutors so will know 30+ kids very well, but will have frequent meetings with the rest of their year staff, possibly even upper and lower school meetings too, so you get to mix with and hear about kids you don't teach. You soon get to know the students who need to be kept an eye on, whether it's a concern about behaviour or due to vulnerability.