Seemingly trivial things that elicit an emotional response of some kind

[First Aspect]

Daft none point



So, unfair to exclude blokes from women's sport? Poor excluded blokes, we'll have to set up an alternative for them. I know, let's have an open category where anyone can participate.

Well literally there is an open category in many sports, including darts and snooker. And yes, for the reasons I've given it is unfair to exclude men from women's sports where gender gives rise to a competitive advantage.

 

[PurplePenguin]

For phone calls, I refer you to Dom Jolly.

For phone calls on speaker, video calls and YouTube, no, absolutely utterly no, it is the most annoying and selfish thing in the world. When making calls in particular, people only have to shout because the phone is further away than the designers intended. It is idiotic.

But the two women sitting next to each other could have had a conversation at a normal volume as well. It was a joyous battle of the inconsiderate which amused me.

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's a false equivalence, not least because gay artists are a minority. At the very least you could ask whether it would be okay to have a straight only award (the answer is no).

You don't have to be a minority in order to be historically underrepresented in certain fields or areas, sports being a key example. Your argument would mean it's fair to have awards for only white artists in South Africa because whites are a minority. Instead awards for black or gay artists rightly encourages participation from those communities in spheres in which they have been underrepresented. Ditto chess, darts, snooker for women. That disappears when you allow men to enter.

As always these things are a balance between the rights of different groups. If, for example, there is no detriment to one group for it to be inclusive of another, then the detriment to that other group of exclusion would be arguably unfair.

The detriment might vary in severity but we all know why men are excluded from women's stuff, whether it's fairness, safety, or opportunities.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There's plenty of men's clubs in London under pressure to allow women to be members.

I think men deserve their single sex spaces as much as women do. 50 or 100 years ago, when these clubs were the place where political networking and backroom dealing was done, it might have been discriminatory but nowadays they are social clubs.

 

[Pblakeney]

I think men deserve their single sex spaces as much as women do. 50 or 100 years ago, when these clubs were the place where political networking and backroom dealing was done, it might have been discriminatory but nowadays they are social clubs.

Imo, it is naive to think that political networking and backroom dealing no longer goes on.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Oh I think it does but not so much in places like the Groucho Club anymore.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Imo, it is naive to think that political networking and backroom dealing no longer goes on.

It depends on the club though. The Carlton Club where all the Tory MPs go is open to all MPs as well as men and women as long as they are politically aligned. No Labour backroom dealing will happen there. So overall, I think the clubs have adjusted to fit their social needs which largely includes women where there is backroom dealing.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Oh I think it does but not so much in places like the Groucho Club anymore.

I went there once for some private event. One of the managers was pretty appalled I struggled to find it as there was no sign. She said "We're the Groucho Club. We don't need a sign". I then enjoyed her contemptuous look and attempt to be polite, when I said that I was evidence to the contrary. Still, perhaps I'm lucky that I find snobbery trivially amusing.

 

[Pblakeney]

It depends on the club though. The Carlton Club where all the Tory MPs go is open to all MPs as well as men and women as long as they are politically aligned. No Labour backroom dealing will happen there. So overall, I think the clubs have adjusted to fit their social needs which largely includes women where there is backroom dealing.

Right, so the labour lot will go to other clubs and the politicking and backroom deals still go on. Got ya. 😉

 

[First Aspect]

You don't have to be a minority in order to be historically underrepresented in certain fields or areas, sports being a key example. Your argument would mean it's fair to have awards for only white artists in South Africa because whites are a minority. Instead awards for black or gay artists rightly encourages participation from those communities in spheres in which they have been underrepresented. Ditto chess, darts, snooker for women. That disappears when you allow men to enter.



The detriment might vary in severity but we all know why men are excluded from women's stuff, whether it's fairness, safety, or opportunities.

Haven't you just contradicted your own argument?

 

[PurplePenguin]

Right, so the labour lot will go to other clubs and the politicking and backroom deals still go on. Got ya. 😉

Yes, but women will be included.

 

[First Aspect]

Anyway. Darts. I don't think it's (substantiated) performance issue. In which case for someone who identifies as female, I am struggling with the exclusion at this point. It doesn't seem to raise the same "safe space" type issues as changing rooms, women only gyms etc. particularly if the audience is both mixed and inebriated, which seems normal for darts.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Anyway. Darts. I don't think it's (substantiated) performance issue. In which case for someone who identifies as female, I am struggling with the exclusion at this point. It doesn't seem to raise the same "safe space" type issues as changing rooms, women only gyms etc. particularly if the audience is both mixed and inebriated, which seems normal for darts.

So are you saying there should be no women's category in darts? Are you saying that all men should be allowed entry? Or are you saying that only a sub group of men should be eligible? If the latter, what are the criteria?

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

"When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer … Bristow's only 27." Sid Waddell.

I feel there is nothing more to say about darts after this.

 

[Pblakeney]

Yes, but women will be included.

I made zero comment on gender. This was a deliberate act.