Socialise the essentials.

[AndyRM]

In which case it's not really a healthcare system or service to the country is it ??

It's a product or service that can be bought at high cost by those who can afford it .

Tough luck if you're poor or disadvantaged.

Pretty much anything can be bought if you have enough money .

This. Health insurance is the US is ruinously expensive. If you're not rich over there, you're in trouble, there isn't really a middle class.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent "Nickel and Dimed" to get an idea.

 

[qigong chimp]

Socialise the essentials.​

... accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative...

 

[mudsticks]

You got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative...

Just another darn day on the "Mudsticks 'steading"

 

[Craig the cyclist]

In which case it's not really a healthcare system or service to the country is it ??

No, but the point is that it doesn't claim to be. It is a paid for model, you need to get insurance.

 

[mudsticks]

No, but the point is that it doesn't claim to be. It is a paid for model, you need to get insurance.

Yes I think we get that .

The needing to get insurance part means that a lot of people are excluded from getting adequate healthcare, just because of their income status.

And others are almost bankrupted by having to pay enormous bills as they go along.

Aside from that just being horrible for those individuals concerned, a society with many people in poor health due to a poverty trap isn't ultimately a well functioning, or even prosperous society overall.

 

[mudsticks]

A guy said it..
So it must be true 🙄

 

[Craig the cyclist]

No, but the point is that it doesn't claim to be. It is a paid for model, you need to get insurance.

Yes I think we get that .

So why have you said, several times, that the system is failing? It isn't, it is doing exactly what it is set up to do, deliver healthcare to it's customers, which it does very well. If you aren't a customer though, then expect to pay differently so they don't lose money.

No different to BUPA/Nuffield etc, if you are insured for hernias, you will get excellent care and treatment for your hernia. If you are not insured for your hernia BUPA will still treat you, but you will pay for it. If you go to a restaurant and ask for the table d'hote menu, they will let you order off of the a la carte menu and they will still serve you that food, but you will be charged more.

The system is working, it just seems that you believe the system is the wrong one, which I don't actually disagree with, but that is the system. Obama tried to change it and what did he introduce? Yep, somewhat more affordable insurance!

 

[AndyRM]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-our-healthcare-system-broken-202107132542

https://www.managedhealthcareexecut...hcare-system-is-broken-a-national-perspective

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...e-americas-broken-healthcare-exposed-by-virus

Just for starters. I agree that it's a different system, and not directly comparable to ours, but it most definitely isn't working.

Also, the Affordable Care Act was a bit more than just 'somewhat more affordable insurance'.

 

[BoldonLad]

This. Health insurance is the US is ruinously expensive. If you're not rich over there, you're in trouble, there isn't really a middle class.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent "Nickel and Dimed" to get an idea.

No personal experience, but, Son No 1, and his wife, had a child, whilst living in Houston (12 years ago). Hospital stay didn’t bankrupt them.

 

[qigong chimp]

No personal experience, but, Son No 1, and his wife, had a child, whilst living in Houston (12 years ago). Hospital stay didn’t bankrupt them.

Sigh..
Why didn't you say?
You might've saved Barack Obama all that trouble.

 

[AndyRM]

No personal experience, but, Son No 1, and his wife, had a child, whilst living in Houston (12 years ago). Hospital stay didn’t bankrupt them.

I think the difference with having a child is that you've got time to plan and save etc. It's the unexpected injuries and illnesses which knacker people.

 

[Salty seadog]

Well, it depends on where you want to be.

US healthcare can deliver some of the most cutting edge, up to date and simply awe inspiring interventions on the planet.

Techniques designed and perfected in the US are now commonplace the world over. So I would suggest that you put the wrong word in quotes.
The healthcare is absolutely outstanding, it is the provision that is messed up. The problem is though, that the UK has this universal system that simply cannot cope with the current demand, that is the problem.

You run your own business, I would imagine you consider a good manager of both the business and the people, and you pride yourself on excellent customer service, and you turn an ok profit? By your own statement above, you can't do all of those things, so which do you let slip?

You don't have to let any of them slip. Political decisions provide or deprive the public services of funds, moral, motivation, skills and most other things in the mix.

It's a question of priorities.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

but it most definitely isn't working.

Because it is the wrong system?

 

[AndyRM]

Because it is the wrong system?

That's not what I said, I said that it isn't working, and people more intelligent and important than me agree.

Although you've agreed that it is the wrong system, so I don't know why you've decided to selectively quote me there.

Having said that, yes, I don't think the system is the right one. And I don't know what the right one is. The USA is such a vast, fragmented and polarised country that it would be pretty much impossible to introduce a nationalised healthcare system/programme funded by taxation which everyone was happy with.

I mean, there are massive differences of opinions about the NHS in the UK, which is a tiny country in comparison.

 

[theclaud]

Taxation will never ever be able to fully fund a health system that delivers everything that everyone wants, when they want it to the standard they want it delivered. Not if we want education, refuse services, an Army, Air Force, Navy and Police service too. It is utterly delusional to believe that.

Don't want all that, thanks . But anyway, the argument is cobblers. Here's a good explainer thread...


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