Socialise the essentials.

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AndyRM

Elder Goth
In which case it's not really a healthcare system or service to the country is it ??

It's a product or service that can be bought at high cost by those who can afford it .

Tough luck if you're poor or disadvantaged.

Pretty much anything can be bought if you have enough money .

This. Health insurance is the US is ruinously expensive. If you're not rich over there, you're in trouble, there isn't really a middle class.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent "Nickel and Dimed" to get an idea.
 

qigong chimp

Settler of gobby hash.

Socialise the essentials.


... accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative...
 
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mudsticks

Squire
No, but the point is that it doesn't claim to be. It is a paid for model, you need to get insurance.

Yes I think we get that .

The needing to get insurance part means that a lot of people are excluded from getting adequate healthcare, just because of their income status.

And others are almost bankrupted by having to pay enormous bills as they go along.

Aside from that just being horrible for those individuals concerned, a society with many people in poor health due to a poverty trap isn't ultimately a well functioning, or even prosperous society overall.
 

mudsticks

Squire
960

A guy said it..
So it must be true 🙄
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
No, but the point is that it doesn't claim to be. It is a paid for model, you need to get insurance.

Yes I think we get that .
So why have you said, several times, that the system is failing? It isn't, it is doing exactly what it is set up to do, deliver healthcare to it's customers, which it does very well. If you aren't a customer though, then expect to pay differently so they don't lose money.

No different to BUPA/Nuffield etc, if you are insured for hernias, you will get excellent care and treatment for your hernia. If you are not insured for your hernia BUPA will still treat you, but you will pay for it. If you go to a restaurant and ask for the table d'hote menu, they will let you order off of the a la carte menu and they will still serve you that food, but you will be charged more.

The system is working, it just seems that you believe the system is the wrong one, which I don't actually disagree with, but that is the system. Obama tried to change it and what did he introduce? Yep, somewhat more affordable insurance!
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
This. Health insurance is the US is ruinously expensive. If you're not rich over there, you're in trouble, there isn't really a middle class.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent "Nickel and Dimed" to get an idea.
No personal experience, but, Son No 1, and his wife, had a child, whilst living in Houston (12 years ago). Hospital stay didn’t bankrupt them.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
No personal experience, but, Son No 1, and his wife, had a child, whilst living in Houston (12 years ago). Hospital stay didn’t bankrupt them.

I think the difference with having a child is that you've got time to plan and save etc. It's the unexpected injuries and illnesses which knacker people.
 
OP
OP
Salty seadog

Salty seadog

Senior Member
Well, it depends on where you want to be.

US healthcare can deliver some of the most cutting edge, up to date and simply awe inspiring interventions on the planet.

Techniques designed and perfected in the US are now commonplace the world over. So I would suggest that you put the wrong word in quotes.
The healthcare is absolutely outstanding, it is the provision that is messed up. The problem is though, that the UK has this universal system that simply cannot cope with the current demand, that is the problem.

You run your own business, I would imagine you consider a good manager of both the business and the people, and you pride yourself on excellent customer service, and you turn an ok profit? By your own statement above, you can't do all of those things, so which do you let slip?
You don't have to let any of them slip. Political decisions provide or deprive the public services of funds, moral, motivation, skills and most other things in the mix.

It's a question of priorities.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
Because it is the wrong system?

That's not what I said, I said that it isn't working, and people more intelligent and important than me agree.

Although you've agreed that it is the wrong system, so I don't know why you've decided to selectively quote me there.

Having said that, yes, I don't think the system is the right one. And I don't know what the right one is. The USA is such a vast, fragmented and polarised country that it would be pretty much impossible to introduce a nationalised healthcare system/programme funded by taxation which everyone was happy with.

I mean, there are massive differences of opinions about the NHS in the UK, which is a tiny country in comparison.
 

theclaud

Reading around the chip
Taxation will never ever be able to fully fund a health system that delivers everything that everyone wants, when they want it to the standard they want it delivered. Not if we want education, refuse services, an Army, Air Force, Navy and Police service too. It is utterly delusional to believe that.

Don't want all that, thanks :okay:. But anyway, the argument is cobblers. Here's a good explainer thread...


View: https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1418484237246865411?t=1SX6dKk5xmfrFcfYX25XMQ&s=19
 
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