Starmer's vision quest

[C R]

Re: Labour's push for growth Growth doesn't necessarily help us. It's more nuanced and Rachel from Accounts doesn't seem to understand that. More important than "Growth" is growth per head of population as well as the nature of that growth. Relevant to most people is their personal situation so growth generating dividends for shareholders mostly outside anything taxable doesn't help personal income, doesn't make more money available for public services or NHS.

If Rachel (from Accounts) really wanted Growth she'd have noticed that around half business is SMEs and sorting our (UK) relationship with EU would provide a massive fairly quick boost in growth yet so far we've just had occasional talk about some undefined "reset" and 7 months of no action.

Ian

Please, don't use the slur that the fascists are trying to popularise.

 

[CXRAndy]

Please, don't use the slur that the fascists are trying to popularise.

What Rachel from accounts or Rachel Rubbish?

 

[Psamathe]

Please, don't use the slur that the fascists are trying to popularise.

I must have missed something but then I don't follow what fascists are saying these days So I can avoid such mistakes in future.

("Rachel from Accounts" is in widespread use, not just amongst the Conservatives. I actually first heard it used by a Green Party member -if that's what you are referring to).

Edit: It sums-up her averageness well. eg her really big announcements today are for stuff that was proposed years ago and she's just searched around and announced them again and they wont create growth even within the next couple of government terms. Yet she's overlooking the faster more effective ways to generate growth.

Ian

 

[BoldonLad]

Re: Labour's push for growth Growth doesn't necessarily help us. It's more nuanced and Rachel from Accounts doesn't seem to understand that. More important than "Growth" is growth per head of population as well as the nature of that growth. Relevant to most people is their personal situation so growth generating dividends for shareholders mostly outside anything taxable doesn't help personal income, doesn't make more money available for public services or NHS.

If Rachel (from Accounts) really wanted Growth she'd have noticed that around half business is SMEs and sorting our (UK) relationship with EU would provide a massive fairly quick boost in growth yet so far we've just had occasional talk about some undefined "reset" and 7 months of no action.

Ian

I believe there is somewhere north of £400billion held in Stocks and Shares ISAs, in the UK. This is all held by individuals. I would agree, it is outside the tax net (that is one of the purposes of ISAs), but, dividends will be going to these individual shareholders, boosting their income.

This is without considering the Pension Pots of those who are not fortunate enough to be in Government (ie taxpayer) funded schemes.

 

[Psamathe]

I believe there is somewhere north of £400billion held in Stocks and Shares ISAs, in the UK. This is all held by individuals. I would agree, it is outside the tax net (that is one of the purposes of ISAs), but, dividends will be going to these individual shareholders, boosting their income.

This is without considering the Pension Pots of those who are not fortunate enough to be in Government (ie taxpayer) funded schemes.

My understanding is that stocks & shares ISAs can invest in overseas companies as well as UK companies, basically where the best returns are.

Pension post tend to change their investments as the holder gets ilder (though yoh can determine investments if you chose to). Generally as you get closer to your retirement age the investments will move to less volatile investments as the fund will have less "long term" to recover is the stock market has a bad time. Generally move to investments like gilts.

Overall about 20% of workplace pensions are invested in the UK, higher for defined benefit plans but does anybody have those these days? Approx. 10% of UK pension funds across the board are in equities.

Ian

 

[C R]

I must have missed something but then I don't follow what fascists are saying these days So I can avoid such mistakes in future.

("Rachel from Accounts" is in widespread use, not just amongst the Conservatives. I actually first heard it used by a Green Party member -if that's what you are referring to).

Edit: It sums-up her averageness well. eg her really big announcements today are for stuff that was proposed years ago and she's just searched around and announced them again and they wont create growth even within the next couple of government terms. Yet she's overlooking the faster more effective ways to generate growth.

Ian

The epithet seems to have originated from a smear attempt by the Spectator, I think, at the end of November regarding Reeves' CV.

From a quick check the first reference I can find in the news to the slur is when Lee Anderson used it in Parliament around that time. Up until your post I had only ever seen it used by far right trolls.

I agree with the spirit of your post, but in this case the enemy (the fascists) of our "enemy" (Reeves) is very much our ENEMY.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Regulations (and their enforcement) are there to protect real people from harm from business which is only interested in their shareholder dividends/profits. We've seen what happens without them eg our rivers are turned into open sewers and not from just one rogue company. Trash regulations means trashing protections and allowing harm to the population from business interested only in £££££.

Planning is a system of scrutiny to ensure long term development is appropriate and in the interests of the population (rather than profits for developers). It is important to check that eg infrastructure is appropriate for a development eg that it wont cause undue irreversible damage to the environment etc. I take a fair interest in local planning (on several occasions attending and speaking at Planning Committee Meetings). Delays are invariably due to developers failing to address issues with their proposal, or failing to agree eg affordable housing or infrastructure upgrades to support their development. Reducing the scrutiny is removing what few protections there are against damaging development and thus harming the lives and environment of real people.

I'm disappointed that our Government is now ignoring the interests of the public instead pushing everything in the interests of business profits and the impacts will be long term and often irrevocable.

Ian

Are you listening to 'Prophets of Profit' on R4? Very good....

 

[Fab Foodie]

I think we've relied on immigration to help cope with our care needs. It's not really growth, it's just we have a shortage of native people wanting to work as carers so we have to rely on those from abroad

As it ever was....

 

[Psamathe]

I agree with the spirit of your post, but in this case the enemy (the fascists) of our "enemy" (Reeves) is very much our ENEMY.

Is that a treble negative?

When a nickname sums-up characteristics being talked about I often use them. I doubt Lee Anderson had an original thought (ever) and I don't regard 1st use of something as a claim of "ownership" to a cause/ideology.

As I said above, the nickname seems in widespread use across the political spectrum. and even chatting to everyday folk. I certainly wouldn't want to help ingrain any fascist specific language but in this case I don't think it's the case.

Edit: but now had my say re this nickname and bigger issues to discuss so I wont be taking this thread off-topic any more ie source of a nickname is a detraction from the issues facing the country and what I regard as failures by our Government.

Ian

 

[BoldonLad]

My understanding is that stocks & shares ISAs can invest in overseas companies as well as UK companies, basically where the best returns are.

Pension post tend to change their investments as the holder gets ilder (though yoh can determine investments if you chose to). Generally as you get closer to your retirement age the investments will move to less volatile investments as the fund will have less "long term" to recover is the stock market has a bad time. Generally move to investments like gilts.

Overall about 20% of workplace pensions are invested in the UK, higher for defined benefit plans but does anybody have those these days? Approx. 10% of UK pension funds across the board are in equities.

Ian

True. But, the dividends would still flow back to the ISA holder.

As for Pensions, it depends, some are self select, some are managed, some are workplace, and, as you say, the lucky few still have defined benefit schemes. But, no matter, the dividends and growth still flow back to the Pension Scheme, and, help fund the pensions of the members of that scheme.

 

[CXRAndy]

Truly shocking


View: https://x.com/GloboGuido/status/1884645149906506219?t=Ya5FUwA1ZaJb7Qi10yA9ig&s=19

 

[CXRAndy]

Labour spending UK taxpayers money to the tune of £3000 a day for new clothes, shoes and mobile phones for illegal immigrants

 

[Psamathe]

True. But, the dividends would still flow back to the ISA holder.

As for Pensions, it depends, some are self select, some are managed, some are workplace, and, as you say, the lucky few still have defined benefit schemes. But, no matter, the dividends and growth still flow back to the Pension Scheme, and, help fund the pensions of the members of that scheme.

We were discussing steps being taken in the UK by the UK Government to generate UK growth. Overseas investment income & growth will depend on factors outside influences of UK Government policies.

Ian

 

[BoldonLad]

We were discussing steps being taken in the UK by the UK Government to generate UK growth. Overseas investment income & growth will depend on factors outside influences of UK Government policies.

Ian

But, money coming to individual UK shareholders (ie, those with funds in ISAs) would increase the income of those individuals. If they could find anything which was manufactured in UK, to spend it on, wouldn't that increase UK "growth"? Expenditure of this additional income, would, no doubt attract Tax (VAT, fuel duty, etc, unless of course all of the individuals involved decided to invest in Luxury Yachts for Hire).

 

[AndyRM]

Labour spending UK taxpayers money to the tune of £3000 a day for new clothes, shoes and mobile phones for illegal immigrants

From the Telegraph article on this...

"The new clothes cost the taxpayer £3,733,145 for 2022-23 and the first 10 months of 2024, equivalent to £3,624 a day for the 105,853 migrants who crossed the Channel during that period. It works out at £35.27 per migrant."

I may be mistaken but I don't think Labour were in power for (most of) that time?