Starmer's vision quest

[spen666]

Perhaps you give her too much credit. It might have been a genuine error, more likely the only error was to think she could get away with it. Either way she's obviously not up to the job, or if she is she's lost the public's confidence.

The guidance from HMRC seems to be very clear and explicit as per this exhibit to a tweet

View: https://x.com/kevinhollinrake/status/1963358870493171963?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1963358870493171963%7Ctwgr%5Eac1929f5f1c598a255c75281b5cbc921c068ac07%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2025%2Fsep%2F04%2Ftories-flat-tax-angela-rayner-keir-starmer-news-updates-uk-politics-live


Not sure that supports a "genuine error" and if it does, she has been incredibly reckless and cavalier over what duty she had to pay

Edit: Not sure if the reference to any other reasons in the HMRC guidance could apply to Rayner's situation

 

[CXRAndy]

Or slipped on a greasy pole when necessary

 

[Shortfall]

You made it very clear that you are pro-Sunak, pro-Conservatives:

That's really not the flex you think it is. Have another read of exactly what I said. The last election was like a choice between getting genital herpes or lung cancer. If you opt for the painful rash it doesn't mean you're pro sexually transmitted infections, it just means you don't want to die of cancer.

 

[Shortfall]

I seem to be changing my views re: Ms Rayner. Previously thinking it was a non-story, having heard her interviews yesterday, there are quite a few significant concerns about her capability to be so senior in Government.

One aspect overlooked by many is that a very major part of her job is selecting and briefing experts and taking their advice or seeking further advice. Either way you look at this clearly either she is useless at selecting capable experts or she is useless at briefing them - either scenario suggests she's out of her depth in her role in Government. If she can't sort out legal advice on buying a house and paying tax, what chance far more complex considerations and far more sign ificant decisions required for her role in Government can be handled.

Trusts are not complex. Primary residence is not complex.

Props to you for having the balls to admit that. "When the facts change I change my mind" is all anyone can expect of a rational person.

 

[matticus]

"You made it very clear that you are pro-Sunak, pro-Conservatives:"
That's really not the flex you think it is. Have another read of exactly what I said. The last election was like a choice between getting genital herpes or lung cancer. If you opt for the painful rash it doesn't mean you're pro sexually transmitted infections, it just means you don't want to die of cancer.

I don't know what you mean by "flex". I read what you said, and I clearly quoted it.

As for your colourful analogy ... well so what? That's democracy - we all get to choose between those who stand up for election. Hopefully we choose wisely - even if we know that they all have flaws.
The alternative is standing ourselves. I assume neither you nor I are doing so at this time ...

 

[Shortfall]

I don't know what you mean by "flex". I read what you said, and I clearly quoted it.

As for your colourful analogy ... well so what? That's democracy - we all get to choose between those who stand up for election. Hopefully we choose wisely - even if we know that they all have flaws.
The alternative is standing ourselves. I assume neither you nor I are doing so at this time ...

Yes you quoted it so you will see it includes an important caveat "Whilst accepting all the dreadful things that happened under 15 years of the Conservatives, I think a Sunak led Tory government would have been less bad than what we now have". Even if you're struggling with your comprehension skills anyone else can clearly see this isn't an endorsement of Sunak. And no I'm not standing for election but I reserve the right to critique those who do. I absolutely accept that they all have flaws, unlike the "They can't be any worse than the Tories" brigade. Yes they can be worse and in spades!!!

Has she resigned yet?

 

[icowden]

As for your colourful analogy ... well so what? That's democracy - we all get to choose between those who stand up for election. Hopefully we choose wisely - even if we know that they all have flaws.

But it's piss poor democracy. The argument for PR has never been stronger. Love or loathe Reform, they took a substantial portion of the vote in the last election but have 4 MPs. Lib Dems had previously had the same problem. Labour took a landslide of seats but a very low % of the actual vote. As @Shortfall said - people didn't vote for lung cancer - they voted against having lung cancer. The result is that we got genital herpes because that was the only possible fall back under FPTP.

 

[icowden]

Anyhoo - here's the latest from Papua New Guinea

 

[Shortfall]

But it's piss poor democracy. The argument for PR has never been stronger. Love or loathe Reform, they took a substantial portion of the vote in the last election but have 4 MPs. Lib Dems had previously had the same problem. Labour took a landslide of seats but a very low % of the actual vote. As @Shortfall said - people didn't vote for lung cancer - they voted against having lung cancer. The result is that we got genital herpes because that was the only possible fall back under FPTP.

To be fair I think we got both with this government. And piles.

 

[matticus]

If Comrade Shortfall is NOT endorsing Sunak - and he quite clearly endorsed VOTING for Sunak - then who IS he saying we should vote for?

Or perhaps he's in the Armchair General Party - number one policy: Stating how dumb everyone else is. number two policy: Never stick your own head above the parapet.

 

[Shortfall]

If Comrade Shortfall is NOT endorsing Sunak - and he quite clearly endorsed VOTING for Sunak - then who IS he saying we should vote for?

Or perhaps he's in the Armchair General Party - number one policy: Stating how dumb everyone else is. number two policy: Never stick your own head above the parapet.

Youre dancing on the head of a pin now. If you want to play linguistic games to try and dig yourself out of a hole you can crack on. My statement was clear. I wasn't endorsing anyone I was making what was basically a binary choice in the last general election. I thought both parties were appalling but I decided that on balance a Sunak government would do less harm than a Starmer led one. As for armchair generals, yes I plead guilty. What are you though if you're not pontificating from the safety of your armchair? Or should we have this particular corner of the Internet shut down on the basis that none of us are seeking office?

 

[matticus]

Youre dancing on the head of a pin now. If you want to play linguistic games to try and dig yourself out of a hole you can crack on. My statement was clear. I wasn't endorsing anyone I was making what was basically a binary choice in the last general election. I thought both parties were appalling but I decided that on balance a Sunak government would do less harm than a Starmer led one. As for armchair generals, yes I plead guilty. What are you though if you're not pontificating from the safety of your armchair? Or should we have this particular corner of the Internet shut down on the basis that none of us are seeking office?

OK, I'll play along: who should we vote for now?

Here in the real world, if you campaign against the two main candidates - humour me here and call them LAB+CON - then you are supporting the next biggest candidate.

So: who are you hoping wins the next election?

 

[matticus]

But it's piss poor democracy. The argument for PR has never been stronger. Love or loathe Reform, they took a substantial portion of the vote in the last election but have 4 MPs.

Similar question to you:
Sure, I'm all in favour of PR. But you seem to be promoting Reform here - is that really the best way forward?

 

[Shortfall]

OK, I'll play along: who should we vote for now?

Here in the real world, if you campaign against the two main candidates - humour me here and call them LAB+CON - then you are supporting the next biggest candidate.

So: who are you hoping wins the next election?

How about we have that discussion in 4 years time, or whenever the impending financial crisis forces an early election, whichever comes sooner?
I'm the meantime lets stick to the subject. What do you think Angela Rayner should do? And do you think Starmer should take the decision out of her hands and sack her?

 

[matticus]

Hang on, I need to get all the facts straight first: did she do anything wrong the last time her house(s) were all over the front pages?

Has she got any unpaid library fines?