Starmer's vision quest

[CXRAndy]

Starmer knew of Rayners tax dealing prior to it all going public

 

[spen666]

That's the story her supporters want to give who want this brushed under the carpet, but the reality is she was happy to throw shite at people on the other side of the house, backed the 'raising standards in public office' promise, and so has used up any goodwill other politicians may have had.
Be the attack dog if you wish, but expect people to hit back hard at you if you slip up.

Reminds me of Lance Armstrong who similarly found so many people took great delight when his hypocrisy was exposed

 

[the snail]

That's the story her supporters want to give who want this brushed under the carpet, but the reality is she was happy to throw shite at people on the other side of the house, backed the 'raising standards in public office' promise, and so has used up any goodwill other politicians may have had.
Be the attack dog if you wish, but expect people to hit back hard at you if you slip up.

If she's broken the rules, then she should suffer the consequences like anyone else, and probably resign from the government. If not then it's a non-story. If people don't like tax avoidance, then the thing to do is change the rules to stop it.

 

[Shortfall]

As someone who has never knowingly been fair to the Tory party, and someone who thought that things would only get better under Labour (the best of limited options) I have to agree that this does not look good for Labour or Rayner and they just have to accept the negative press… because they would have made exactly the same fuss and shouted for resignations if it had been a Tory minister involved.
It does nothing for her credibility as a minister or future candidate for leader if she couldn’t even take the time to ensure she had done everything ‘proper’ given the previous fuss over her purchase of her council house.
People who live in glass houses must be prepared for stones to be thrown and take the necessary precautions in advance.

Fair play.

 

[icowden]

Similar question to you:
Sure, I'm all in favour of PR. But you seem to be promoting Reform here - is that really the best way forward?

Possibly not, but look at it another way. According to polling by electoral calculus, under FPTP if a General Election were to be held tomorrow, Reform would win with between 368 and 454 seats. They would have a significant majority (86 seats).

Under simple PR based on predicted percentage of the vote however it would look like this:

116​	Conservative
138​	Labour
88​	Lib Dem
197​	Reform
57​	Green
17​	SNP
5​	Plaid
31​	Other

No majority for Reform. That means that Reform would have to form an alliance with the Conservative party who would hopefully temper some of the insanity (not guaranteed), and if that failed, Labour could form a liberal alliance with Lib Dems and Green.

 

[Psamathe]

If she's broken the rules, then she should suffer the consequences like anyone else, and probably resign from the government. If not then it's a non-story. If people don't like tax avoidance, then the thing to do is change the rules to stop it.

I thought she has already admitted she had broken the rules. In an interview I saw yesterday she said she had not paid the Stamp Duty she should have as per the rules.

The debate is about whether she takes responsibility for her declarations to HMRC.

To me it's the responsibility of each taxpayer to comply with the rules and pay the tax due. And if uncertain on "advice" check. I suspect it's happened to a fair number of people, certainly I've received written tax notifications from advisers/investment managers and it hasn't "rung true" so I've questioned it and they were wrong and withdrew what they'd previously said.

Failing to select reliable advisers, failing to question advice to my mind does not exempt you from your responsibilities. Advisers give "advice" not "instructions".

 

[Psamathe]

No majority for Reform. That means that Reform would have to form an alliance with the Conservative party who would hopefully temper some of the insanity (not guaranteed), and if that failed, Labour could form a liberal alliance with Lib Dems and Green.

At the moment the Conservatives seem to be trying to be more extreme than Reform eg Robert Jenrick says UK asylum seekers should be held in ‘rudimentary prisons’. My initial thought was once the'd won they'd no longer feel under pressure in the same way but then all this extreme stuff would likely be in their manifesto so the even a few extreme Conservative MPs would still be pushing for it all as "It's a manifesto pledge so we must do it".

 

[BoldonLad]

I suspect it is a Disabled Persons Trust given the money came about as an NHS Compensation payment. so it would carry on whilst her son is alive and helps protect any means tested benfits he is entitled to. No doubt she will be a trustee along with the father. The purpose of the trust assets would be to support her son through adulthood due to reduced or no earning capacity.
As said above, making part of the former matrimonial home part of the trust does not appear to be of benefit to her son as there is no way to generate income or access the asset to benefit him or help with his needs. That said, if the amount of the NHS settlement in the public domain? If it was millions of pounds then the property value may be a small part of the overall trust value.

It does whiff of her seeing it as way to purchase a property in a constituency she may hope to represent given she currently sits in a marginal seat that could easily be lost to Reform. I suspect mortgages for MPs in marginals are not easy to come by given the risk of losing their job!

In the interview on BBC News at 6, she claimed the Flat in the prospective constituency was mortgaged. From memory, her words were something like "as most people do, I purchased the property with the aid of a mortgage".

 

[BoldonLad]

If she's broken the rules, then she should suffer the consequences like anyone else, and probably resign from the government. If not then it's a non-story. If people don't like tax avoidance, then the thing to do is change the rules to stop it.

which is rather what one would expect a Labour Government to do, particularly one with the "broadest shoulders" catch phrase.

 

[spen666]

If she's broken the rules, then she should suffer the consequences like anyone else, and probably resign from the government. If not then it's a non-story. If people don't like tax avoidance, then the thing to do is change the rules to stop it.

Its not quite as simple as you say.
It would be as you describe, except for Rayner's comments about others who for whatever reason did not pay the correct tax. She took great delight in being viscious in calling out others who did not pay the correct tax and has in the past suggested any MP not paying all the taxes due should not be in government and that every pound unpaid in tax is a pound denied to public services.
She either stands by what she said, or she will forever be seen as not to be trusted ( less than most politicians if that is possible) and a hypocrit.

The optics of her previous language re non payment of taxes and this situation do not sit comfortable.

 

[spen666]

An interesting aside is that the Guardian and the BBC are reporting that for her purchase of a property in Hove, Sussex, Rayner used not a solicitors firm, but a firm of licenced conveyancers based in Herne Bay, Kent.

1. It is unlikely that this firm could give her "expert" tax advice on her situation. If she is relying on advice from them, she has I think shot herself in the foot - however, we do not know if she had tax advice from this firm of licenced conveyancers
2. I'm curious why someone from Manchester area, living also in Central London would use a conveyancing firm based in Kent for a purchase in Sussex. - not that there is on the face of it anything at all wrong with this, but it does raise questions of why she used that firm

 

[spen666]

Re: Epping: Daft thing is in interviews with Epping protestors many say "We don't know who these people are". Daft as eg if I purchased or rented somewhere in Epping and moved to the area they wouldn't know who I was either. Do I need permission from locals before moving there? Am I required to submit two forms of acceptable ID and a recent utility bill so they "know who I am"?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c864l3yqzq7t

Pervert convicted for being a pervert

 

[Bromptonaut]

Starmer knew of Rayners tax dealing prior to it all going public

Colour me surprised.

If I thought I might have done something with the potential to embarrass my boss I'd be making sure he knew of it.

 

[First Aspect]

An interesting aside is that the Guardian and the BBC are reporting that for her purchase of a property in Hove, Sussex, Rayner used not a solicitors firm, but a firm of licenced conveyancers based in Herne Bay, Kent.

1. It is unlikely that this firm could give her "expert" tax advice on her situation. If she is relying on advice from them, she has I think shot herself in the foot - however, we do not know if she had tax advice from this firm of licenced conveyancers
2. I'm curious why someone from Manchester area, living also in Central London would use a conveyancing firm based in Kent for a purchase in Sussex. - not that there is on the face of it anything at all wrong with this, but it does raise questions of why she used that firm

There are firms advertising all over the place for cheap conveyancing. Even on price comparison sites. They are indeed cheaper than a solicitor, but you get what you pay for, which is a teenager with a few hours training.

But it's not like she is helping run the country or anything like that, so we shouldn't worry about the lack of judgement in using such a firm.

 

[Stevo 666]

She's a woman, from a working class background, and a Labour politician, therefore she has no right to be affluent, or own property, and she should voluntarily give all her money to the treasury, wear sackcloth clothes and live in a cardboard box.

That's the standard brush off response which unfortunately isn't relevant to her tax dodging or steaming hypocrisy.