Starmer's vision quest

[Rusty Nails]

Well, I was born in the Wearside area, as was my father, but, my paternal grandfather was Scots, on my mothers “side” a bit of Jewishness, and, would you believe a bit of Yemeni, and that is only in the recent past, so, personally, I don’t care too much for all this ancestry shite. 😊

Not sure what not caring for it means. It exists and we all have it.

 

[spen666]

Another problem for Kier?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-law-renting-family-home-Downing-Street.html
Its certainly something he could do without, even if it seems to be a relatively minor matter in the grand scheme of things

 

[Xipe Totec]

The most effective "say" that rUK should have is on issues such as currency, trade relationship, the border, defence spending, the national debt, marine boundaries.

That was Scotland could make a more informed decision.

Things Scots have been told by nationalists include:

- the rUK will let Scotland share the pound, in a currency union. Lie. In fact, Scotland would be able to use pounds, the dollar, monopoly money or even the oak leaf if it wanted, but would be a nation without it's own currency. Like Perto Rico.
(- currently they are saying the Scottish peso is an alternative option.)
- there would be no border checks with England. Lie. Particularly if Scotland magically enters the EU.
- Scotland will immediately rejoin the EU. Lie. It could apply immediately, but the financial criteria would take a generation to meet and that would be painful in the extreme. That also supposes that Spain would be amenable to allowing a breakaway region to join.
- the EU will let Scotland join without adopting the Euro. Lie.
- the rUK would continue military spending in a foreign country, inter alia shipyards and naval docks. Lie. The news from the MoD that personnel in Rosyth would be moved to Portsmouth was refuted as a "threat" by the SNP, whereas it's merely the inevitable consequences of facilities finding themselves in another country.
- Scotland is not on the hook for its share of UK national debt. Lie.
- Scotland can have it's own sovereign wealth fund like Norway. That one always made me chuckle. I suppose it's true, except there'd be nothing in it.

Sorry to bang on, but the tub thumpers on here seems to think I wasn't up there or paying attention for long enough to track the moving target of b0llocks coming from one side of the "debate".

Queue stroppy indignant responses.

I'm not sure how long ago you scuttled back to the reassuring familiarity of Farageland, but this is mostly inaccurate, misrepresented and outdated bollocks as far as the the independence movement circa 2025, rather than 2014 is concerned.

The thinking around currency is that an independent Scotland would use its own, and only maintain use of the UK pound until such time as that currency was established. I understand these things can take some time.

A hard border is probably inevitable - many thought so at the time of the original referendum. I think the position then and now was that Scotland would not choose to create one, but could hardly prevent England from doing so.

Scotland would aim to join the EU as quickly as possible but no-one imagines it would be either immediate or automatic - we may need to have a referendum on it! EEA or EFTA membership would likely be a precursor to full EU membership. Oddly, some people wonder if an independent Scotland rejoining the Single Market & forming closer ties with the EU might possibly encourage England to wake the fuck up from its Brexit stupor.

You may be right as far as the UK's military presence in Scotland's concerned. A lot of folk would breathe a massive sigh of relief if rUK's nuclear WMD stockpile (and its rotting fleet of decommissioned subs leaking radioactive filth into the Clyde) were no longer a handful of miles from Scotland's major centres of population. The rest may well be a price worth paying.

Scotland's 'share' of the UK national debt is actually hilariously calculated to suggest that somehow, 53% of it is created by 9% of the UK's population! I'm quite sure a rational, proportionate share could be calculated by actual economists though, rather than furious propagandists.

And a Sovereign Wealth Fund's really only ever been seen as a missed opportunity - something both Scotland and rUK could have had, had we not been governed by short-sighted, short-term profit-fixated Westminster arseholes.

Cue supercilious, condescending, contrarian snark.