Starmer's vision quest

[CXRAndy]

I'm not sure how long ago you scuttled back to the reassuring familiarity of Farageland, but this is mostly inaccurate, misrepresented and outdated bollocks as far as the the independence movement circa 2025, rather than 2014 is concerned.

The thinking around currency is that an independent Scotland would use its own, and only maintain use of the UK pound until such time as that currency was established. I understand these things can take some time.

A hard border is probably inevitable - many thought so at the time of the original referendum. I think the position then and now was that Scotland would not choose to create one, but could hardly prevent England from doing so.

Scotland would aim to join the EU as quickly as possible but no-one imagines it would be either immediate or automatic - we may need to have a referendum on it! EEA or EFTA membership would likely be a precursor to full EU membership. Oddly, some people wonder if an independent Scotland rejoining the Single Market & forming closer ties with the EU might possibly encourage England to wake the fuck up from its Brexit stupor.

You may be right as far as the UK's military presence in Scotland's concerned. A lot of folk would breathe a massive sigh of relief if rUK's nuclear WMD stockpile (and its rotting fleet of decommissioned subs leaking radioactive filth into the Clyde) were no longer a handful of miles from Scotland's major centres of population. The rest may well be a price worth paying.

Scotland's 'share' of the UK national debt is actually hilariously calculated to suggest that somehow, 53% of it is created by 9% of the UK's population! I'm quite sure a rational, proportionate share could be calculated by actual economists though, rather than furious propagandists.

And a Sovereign Wealth Fund's really only ever been seen as a missed opportunity - something both Scotland and rUK could have had, had we not been governed by short-sighted, short-term profit-fixated Westminster arseholes.

Cue supercilious, condescending, contrarian snark.

By joining the EU, you will have an overlord far more controlling than Westminster.

EU will strip your natural assets and force regulations, migration upon your tiny, no influence country

Thats not being independent, just swapping one devil you know for another much worse.

 

[Stevo 666]

Y'know - I kind of like that idea.

The version where Scotland, NI & Wales vote to be part of a union of independent Celtic nations, & England fucks off into a bin.

But that probably wasn't what you had in mind.

It's not far off, but it wouldn't be us that ends up in the bin 😉

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1983810993332322745?t=WMgrd8F5ubAZg0lWieQ8LQ&s=19

 

[Stevo 666]

How about answering what I asked?

What would satisfy you as having had your ‘say’, not a vote, without it being a vehicle for granting or denying permission to Scotland to hold an independence referendum?

If we want to have a vote on leaving the union then that would be our say. I'm not aware of anything that requires us to get permission for that, even if it's not quite the same for Scotland.

 

[Pblakeney]

YOuGov says 75% of their respondents favour a wealth tax.

I'm guessing the 25% against are the wealthy.

 

[Stevo 666]

So another top Labour minister failing to handle the detail.

Rachel clearly didn't pick very good agents to use when letting out her home, or sort out the appropriate due dilligence with Southwark Council.
Somewhat embarassing for her and Keir.

You would hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would know how to rent her own house out properly. Or maybe she took advice from Honest Ange?

 

[First Aspect]

I'm guessing the 25% against are the wealthy.

Or the numerate.

 

[Stevo 666]

By joining the EU, you will have an overlord far more controlling than Westminster.

EU will strip your natural assets and force regulations, migration upon your tiny, no influence country

Thats not being independent, just swapping one devil you know for another much worse.

That assumes that the EU would have them. I recall that potential EU entrants need to demonstrate that they have their finances in order.

And I'm not convinced that we would let Scotland use our currency once they've left (even as a temporary measure), so I guess they'll be back to using Groats?

 

[Ian H]

I'm guessing the 25% against are the wealthy.

Several high-profile billionaires have said they'd like to pay more tax.

 

[BoldonLad]

Not sure what not caring for it means. It exists and we all have it.

Well, it means that I prefer not to use "it" as a reason "rate" other people 😊

 

[Pblakeney]

Several high-profile billionaires have said they'd like to pay more tax.

Nobody is stopping them from doing so.
Words are cheap.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm guessing the 25% against are the wealthy.

I am guessing that the 75% in favour (or, at least, a lot of them) do not realise that they are "the wealthy" 😊

 

[BoldonLad]

That assumes that the EU would have them. I recall that potential EU entrants need to demonstrate that they have their finances in order.

And I'm not convinced that we would let Scotland use our currency once they've left (even as a temporary measure), so I guess they'll be back to using Groats?

The rules for joining the EU are not something I have studied recently (well, OK, ever) but, don't new members have to agree to use the Euro, possibly after a transition period?

 

[Stevo 666]

I am guessing that the 75% in favour (or, at least, a lot of them) do not realise that they are "the wealthy" 😊

People are more likely to be in favour of taxes that they think they won't have to pay themselves. Maybe they should ask again along the lines of 'would you be prepared to pay a wealth tax?' and see what the result is.

 

[Stevo 666]

The rules for joining the EU are not something I have studied recently (well, OK, ever) but, don't new members have to agree to use the Euro, possibly after a transition period?

I think so, but what will they use in the meantime? They could ask nicely bonuses Sterling but there's no guarantee we would let them.