Starmer's vision quest

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/Brunte84/status/1986155124176163000?t=kXY7r8Fg6vtYbWYDbZngnw&s=19

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/AllisonPearson/status/1986106459285823527?t=f_DXrqg0w6O0sRFtyt0G3g&s=19

 

[BoldonLad]

I admit to sweeping generalisation to make a point ;-)


Because a Porsche Taycan is quite light at around 2170kg compared to an e-Range Rover at 2800kg or a Mercedes EQV at 2960Kg. The very heavy ones tend to be the most expensive, but not all of the most expensive EVs are the heaviest.

I rather assumed it was an exercise in taxation based on (supposed) damage to the infrastructure based on weight, rather than an exercise in taxing "flash" or "luxury", if this is so, it would be quite correct to tax the Porsche less than the Range-Rover and/or Mercedes.

 

[icowden]

I rather assumed it was an exercise in taxing based on (supposed) damage to the infrastructure based on weight, rather than an exercise in taxing "flash" or "luxury", if this is so, it would be quite correct to tax the Porsche less than the Range-Rover and/or Mercedes.

That's just a red herring. Car weight makes little difference to infrastructure damage which is largely caused by HGVs.

 

[BoldonLad]

They were good cars. I had a Talbot version.

I mean when I say good, I don't mean the engine or the handling, which was asthmatic and yacht like, respectively. But it was engineered to safely understeer on any road above about 10 mph. Nor do I refer to the interior materials quality, on account of the scratchy seats and the sticky steering wheel. Or the safety, because there wasn't any. Or the brakes, which were engineered not to frighten anyone with suddenly decelerations.

But they were easy to break into, cheap and the a pillars were nice and small.

Great cars.

I was unfortunate enough to own a Sunbeam, Talbot version. It was undoubtedly the most unreliable car I ever owned, but, it's most spectacular fail was the day when the rubber mountings for the radiator gave up and allowed the radiator to drop down, shearing the brakes pipes, and resulting in complete loss of brake fluid, and, thus braking function. 😊

 

[BoldonLad]

That's just a red herring. Car weight makes little difference to infrastructure damage which is largely caused by HGVs.

oh dear! does that mean that imply that taxation decisions are being made on the basis of petty disapproval, rather than scientific logic/

 

[First Aspect]

That's just a red herring. Car weight makes little difference to infrastructure damage which is largely caused by HGVs.

Depends which infrastructure. Trunk roads yes huge bias of damage towards HGVs, most rural and suburban roads (of which there are many more miles) no, I would say the vast majority of traffic is cars and vans.

 

[Pross]

That just isn't true. Try getting suitcases and a pushchair inside the boot of a saloon when you go and visit granny and grandad for a week.
Also, how many EV saloons can you list?

The fact is that the SUV shape has become pretty much ubiquitous. The only alternative in EV world is a hatchback.


There are a few EV estates - they are really big, expensive and er... heavy.


Not suggesting a minivan. Just that you won't find a light family sized EV.

I comfortably managed with medium family cars when my kids were young so I'm not sure when SUVs became necessary. I had BMW 3 series compacts for 5 years, if we went on holiday I just used a roof box. We even had a Mini as our main car for 3 years although we did also own a Frontera at that point as a towing vehicle so could use that on occasions where the Mini couldn't cope (which was suprisingly infrequent). I'm hoping to go for an EV as my next car but I'm put off by the lack of a decent sized estate car, the few that are available are either massive / heavy, hideously expensive or both. Full disclosure, I currently drive a Qashqai as I was given it (12 years old now and well over 200k on the clock) so technically I drive an SUV albeit a small one. I find it frustrating that its shape means it often less practical then my previous Focus Estate.

 

[icowden]

I comfortably managed with medium family cars when my kids were young so I'm not sure when SUVs became necessary.

I'm not sure they ever did, but medium family cars are now pretty much compact SUVs.

I'm hoping to go for an EV as my next car but I'm put off by the lack of a decent sized estate car, the few that are available are either massive / heavy, hideously expensive or both.

The MG MG5 is the only affordable one I'm aware of. £28,745.00 new on the road - they have just remodeled for 2025. Weirdly although it has always been marketed as an Estate, the 2025 is being marketed as an SUV...

 

[AuroraSaab]

If the manufacture/sale of new ICE cars is to cease, at whatever date is currently in vogue, the switch to EVs (or, some other form of propulsion) will happen, unless, we are all going to buy Haynes manuals and run our existing ICE cars indefinitely.

I'm planning to. The most planet friendly cars are those which are made already. Somebody has probably calculated how long it would take to offset the harm from the manufacturing process if you switched from an old ICE car to a new ev just for the sake of it. I would guess it's quite a few years.

 

[Pross]

That's just a red herring. Car weight makes little difference to infrastructure damage which is largely caused by HGVs.

Glad to see someone knows this. You literally ignore anything below HGV size when calculating the thickness of a road as the 4th power rule applies i.e. a single 40t 5 axle truck creates around the same load as over 4000 2 axle 2t cars / SUVs (and the single 2t car is the same as 160,000 100kg cyclists for the next time someone bangs on about 'road tax').