Starmer's vision quest

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Dorset Boy

Member
Poverty exists because it's government wastes so much money and doesn't use the tax wisely

Encouraging the nations less well off with education and apprenticeships, work schemes would go much further than spending it on hotel accommodation for illegal immigrants

Shall we up the overseas aid budget then?
I can't see you wanting that to happen.
 
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CXRAndy

Veteran
What - fleeing in desperation from persecution or certain death, & seeking a safe haven in a country they do not realise is largely run & populated by hostile, vindictive, xenophobic morons? How does that work?

Hardly, there would be women and children with almost all every man.

You don't see that


You don't leave your family behind with persecution and certain death
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
Could have put this on any thread involving immigration I suppose...

FB_IMG_1744632341544.jpg
 

icowden

Squire
You don't leave your family behind with persecution and certain death
I'll explain this to you yet again.

Imagine your family. Grandad, Grandma both in their 70s. You - aged 45, your wife aged 42, your three kids, tom aged 9, wilma aged 14 and harry aged 19.

You can get together enough money in cash for one member of your family to travel and seek asylum in another country, knowing that once you have one member of your family there, you can start to arrange for safer routes of travel for the rest of your family to join them.

You need the person most likely to be able to earn money. You also need to ensure that you can protect your family in the interim.

You know that the route to seek asylum will be arduous and that many people die.

You cannot send your parents, they will both die. They are not fit or well enough to travel with people smugglers.
You cannot send your wife, she will likely be raped. Same goes for 14 year old daughter.
Your younger son is too young.

So who do you send - your older son, or yourself? If you send yourself, your family income will be halved your younger children and wife will be left unprotected.

So the only sensible choice is to send your 19 year old son. He is the fittest and strongest. Once he has found somewhere safe and has employment then you can start to move the rest of your family.
 

C R

Veteran
I'll explain this to you yet again.

Imagine your family. Grandad, Grandma both in their 70s. You - aged 45, your wife aged 42, your three kids, tom aged 9, wilma aged 14 and harry aged 19.

You can get together enough money in cash for one member of your family to travel and seek asylum in another country, knowing that once you have one member of your family there, you can start to arrange for safer routes of travel for the rest of your family to join them.

You need the person most likely to be able to earn money. You also need to ensure that you can protect your family in the interim.

You know that the route to seek asylum will be arduous and that many people die.

You cannot send your parents, they will both die. They are not fit or well enough to travel with people smugglers.
You cannot send your wife, she will likely be raped. Same goes for 14 year old daughter.
Your younger son is too young.

So who do you send - your older son, or yourself? If you send yourself, your family income will be halved your younger children and wife will be left unprotected.

So the only sensible choice is to send your 19 year old son. He is the fittest and strongest. Once he has found somewhere safe and has employment then you can start to move the rest of your family.

As I said earlier, you give it too much credit.
 

Psamathe

Well-Known Member
Interesting report
Electoral wake-up call’: dozens of Labour MPs risk losing majorities over welfare cuts
New data shows cabinet ministers among MPs at risk as campaign to pressure government over proposed benefit cuts to step up

At least 80 Labour MPs are at risk of losing their majorities over proposed welfare cuts, according to data shared between Labour MPs who are warning the government that the changes “pose a real electoral risk”.

The analysis suggests almost 200 Labour MPs have a majority smaller than the number of recipients of personal independent payments in their constituencies – a significant number in northern England “red wall” seats.
...
Disappointing if it's electoral prospects that are dictating "safety net" for the vulnerable.

Whilst I'm uncomfortable with cutting benefits to the vulnerable it does strike me as a very complex issue where details matter and I don't have enough knowledge nor understanding of those details but don't think that "agree" or "disagree" is nuanced enough.

Ian
 

Xipe Totec

Something nasty in the woodshed
You're too kind to it.

It's my upbringing. I was raised to be courteous, even-handed, clear in my thoughts, words & deeds, and to call a cünt a cünt.
 

icowden

Squire
Nah, they are almost all illegal economic migrants

Waits for you to post a link to your research into this area...

Waits...

Waits...

Waits...

Oh - and an explanation as to why you would risk death and spend thousands of pounds just to get a better job...

Waits...
 
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CXRAndy

Veteran
Waits for you to post a link to your research into this area...

Waits...

Waits...

Waits...

Oh - and an explanation as to why you would risk death and spend thousands of pounds just to get a better job...

Waits...

It's not the better jobs or they would stop on any other country in Europe. All the European countries are safe are they not?

It's the freebies that are handed out when they get here in the UK.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Interesting report

Disappointing if it's electoral prospects that are dictating "safety net" for the vulnerable.

Whilst I'm uncomfortable with cutting benefits to the vulnerable it does strike me as a very complex issue where details matter and I don't have enough knowledge nor understanding of those details but don't think that "agree" or "disagree" is nuanced enough.

Ian

That’s a bit “balanced” isn’t it?
 

icowden

Squire
It's not the better jobs or they would stop on any other country in Europe. All the European countries are safe are they not?
It's the freebies that are handed out when they get here in the UK.
There are no freebies.

Your 19 year old son speaks two languages - Syrian and English. He has no French, Italian, German, Spanish, Portuguese or Baltic languages.
Which country do you think he should aim for?

Also, your second cousin Dom is resident in the UK with some other people you know. Do you choose a country where he has no friends, no relations, no contacts and is unable to communicate, or the country where he can speak the language a little and has people he knows?
 
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