Starmer's vision quest

[BoldonLad]

The 1970s sounded really fun. Let's go back there.

No thank you, I have been there, it wasn’t fun 😊

 

[First Aspect]

No thank you, I have been there, it wasn’t fun 😊

I can barely remember it, but looking back, I don't think it was a good decade for trousers.

 

[icowden]

No thank you, I have been there, it wasn’t fun 😊

The bits I remember were fun, but those are mostly memories of birthday parties running around the garden and jumping in the paddling pool in my terry toweling swim shorts, or going narrowboating with my nanna and grandad and making my little plastic boat on a string cruise along side the boat.

 

[Ian H]

Britain was at one stage uninhabited. We are all immigrants. Sh!t oh dear.

You're only an immigrant if there's already someone resident (perhaps painted blue and waving spears).

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

It's a widespread issue, judging by the reactions of several other countries.

I agree that restrictions on sectors where there are clear shortages are not a good idea.

Aside from numbers, it's about fulfilling job needs and getting good quality people, rather than some randoms who become a burden.

If you look at the detail though, the large increase in net migration is specifically driven by work and study visas (mainly health care in relation to work), not so called randoms who become a burden. I have said this before, but the main issue with immigration is the lack of accurate information disseminated and also politicians unwillingness to talk about it honestly. Net migration is not being driven by asylum numbers or people coming to the UK for humanitarian reasons, it is being driven by students and workers, and most importantly Non-EU. You do also have to link this to brexit, EU net migration is down, but all we have essentially done is replace these numbers with people from outside the EU.

If people do really want to reduce net migration, you have to be fundamentally honest about the reasons people are coming here and the implications for the UK if we reduce the numbers.

1) International students. If we reduce the numbers that obviously has a negative effect on UK Universities and the reduction in funding effectively kills a large number of them, taking thousands of jobs with it.
2) Workers, specifically in sectors such as health and social care. This is an economic and societal problem, people live longer and there are more of us, we need more hospitals, more plans for longer term healthcare for chronic conditions, more residential beds, more community/place based care, more mental health services. We simply do not have enough money to fund all of this or enough UK workers to cover the sectors. If we want to reduce our reliance on foreign workers then we need huge investment and a massive overhaul of the NHS/Local authority budgets, healthcare training (including better public sector pay etc.). This isn't going to happen so we need foreign workers or the system becomes untenable.

Immigration is such a complex issue but politicians and the media have for decades reduced it to a simplistic (and untrue) narrative of people coming here to take "our jobs" and drain "our services". The reality is that the people that really drain services are far more likely to be British, unemployed and suffer from chronic healthcare conditions, usually caused by class inequality.

 

[First Aspect]

You're only an immigrant if there's already someone resident (perhaps painted blue and waving spears).

You may be right, but as a modern human I am probably still an immigrant. The Neanderthals were here first. I thought.

Even so there are still probably some competing claims, like Rockall but slightly bigger.

 

[icowden]

2) Workers, specifically in sectors such as health and social care. This is an economic and societal problem, people live longer and there are more of us, we need more hospitals, more plans for longer term healthcare for chronic conditions, more residential beds, more community/place based care, more mental health services. We simply do not have enough money to fund all of this or enough UK workers to cover the sectors. If we want to reduce our reliance on foreign workers then we need huge investment and a massive overhaul of the NHS/Local authority budgets, healthcare training (including better public sector pay etc.). This isn't going to happen so we need foreign workers or the system becomes untenable.

And the big problem here is that if you want to fill the shortfall in training for Nurses for example you have to start now but those nurses won't be available for 3 to 4 years by which time the Government has usually changed. You have to plan your training and look at the age of the workforce. We have a shortage of GPs because fewer people want to do it and we have an ageing population of GPs many of whom are now at or approaching retirement age.

 

[Rusty Nails]

No thank you, I have been there, it wasn’t fun 😊

I was there around the same time and for me it certainly was fun…in many of the rather frivolous ways I define fun.

If I was older and had had more responsibilities it may not have been so much fun, but there has never really been a golden age for all.

 

[Pross]

If you look at the detail though, the large increase in net migration is specifically driven by work and study visas (mainly health care in relation to work), not so called randoms who become a burden. I have said this before, but the main issue with immigration is the lack of accurate information disseminated and also politicians unwillingness to talk about it honestly. Net migration is not being driven by asylum numbers or people coming to the UK for humanitarian reasons, it is being driven by students and workers, and most importantly Non-EU. You do also have to link this to brexit, EU net migration is down, but all we have essentially done is replace these numbers with people from outside the EU.

If people do really want to reduce net migration, you have to be fundamentally honest about the reasons people are coming here and the implications for the UK if we reduce the numbers.

1) International students. If we reduce the numbers that obviously has a negative effect on UK Universities and the reduction in funding effectively kills a large number of them, taking thousands of jobs with it.
2) Workers, specifically in sectors such as health and social care. This is an economic and societal problem, people live longer and there are more of us, we need more hospitals, more plans for longer term healthcare for chronic conditions, more residential beds, more community/place based care, more mental health services. We simply do not have enough money to fund all of this or enough UK workers to cover the sectors. If we want to reduce our reliance on foreign workers then we need huge investment and a massive overhaul of the NHS/Local authority budgets, healthcare training (including better public sector pay etc.). This isn't going to happen so we need foreign workers or the system becomes untenable.

Immigration is such a complex issue but politicians and the media have for decades reduced it to a simplistic (and untrue) narrative of people coming here to take "our jobs" and drain "our services". The reality is that the people that really drain services are far more likely to be British, unemployed and suffer from chronic healthcare conditions, usually caused by class inequality.

What's really needed is a way to get rid of our economically inactive "indiginous" population and reduce the net numbers that way. In many cases they are the same people that don't want immigrants coming here taking the jobs they don't / won't do and benefits they feel should be going to them.

 

[C R]

If you look at the detail though, the large increase in net migration is specifically driven by work and study visas (mainly health care in relation to work), not so called randoms who become a burden. I have said this before, but the main issue with immigration is the lack of accurate information disseminated and also politicians unwillingness to talk about it honestly. Net migration is not being driven by asylum numbers or people coming to the UK for humanitarian reasons, it is being driven by students and workers, and most importantly Non-EU. You do also have to link this to brexit, EU net migration is down, but all we have essentially done is replace these numbers with people from outside the EU.

If people do really want to reduce net migration, you have to be fundamentally honest about the reasons people are coming here and the implications for the UK if we reduce the numbers.

1) International students. If we reduce the numbers that obviously has a negative effect on UK Universities and the reduction in funding effectively kills a large number of them, taking thousands of jobs with it.
2) Workers, specifically in sectors such as health and social care. This is an economic and societal problem, people live longer and there are more of us, we need more hospitals, more plans for longer term healthcare for chronic conditions, more residential beds, more community/place based care, more mental health services. We simply do not have enough money to fund all of this or enough UK workers to cover the sectors. If we want to reduce our reliance on foreign workers then we need huge investment and a massive overhaul of the NHS/Local authority budgets, healthcare training (including better public sector pay etc.). This isn't going to happen so we need foreign workers or the system becomes untenable.

Immigration is such a complex issue but politicians and the media have for decades reduced it to a simplistic (and untrue) narrative of people coming here to take "our jobs" and drain "our services". The reality is that the people that really drain services are far more likely to be British, unemployed and suffer from chronic healthcare conditions, usually caused by class inequality.

Facts, we know about them but we don't like them. It is because of facts that we can't have unicorns.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I can barely remember it, but looking back, I don't think it was a good decade for trousers.

Split knee loon pants. They were cool weren't they?

 

[Pross]

You may be right, but as a modern human I am probably still an immigrant. The Neanderthals were here first. I thought.

Even so there are still probably some competing claims, like Rockall but slightly bigger.

To be fair the people most vocal about immigration tend to look closely related to neanderthals so may have a case on that basis.

 

[Pross]

I can barely remember it, but looking back, I don't think it was a good decade for trousers.

There was also the constant static electric shocks from all the nylon.

 

[AndyRM]

"I'm not against multiculturalism. Some of my best friends are multicultural."

What I find vaguely amusing is that so many prominent people who are against multiculturalism have married or are in relationships with foreigners.

 

[Bazzer]

Sure, but most people don't decide to die through self neglect because most terminally ill people (though you don't have to terminally ill for assisted dying in this bill) don't want to die, they want to live as long as they can without pain or distress. But if you put an assisted dying option in front of them it won't be long before some people do feel obliged to take it up.

BTW the option should be better palliative care so no one ends up dehydrated and hypothermic, not '... or we can kill you'.

I have seen first hand the impact; an incurable brain tumour had on my grandfather and his family, prostate cancer had on my step father and his adopted family, what dementia and other health issues has done to my Mum and is continuing to do to our family, to name but three examples. In each instance palliative care drew or is drawing out the family pain, something none of the individuals would have wished when they able to make a reasoned decision.
The option shouldn't be better palliative care. The option should be better palliative care for those who want it.
I don't want my family to go through with me what I have seen in others. If my family have a hand in my death, I would like the assurance the State is not going to interfere in my wishes.
If others come to a different conclusion that is up to them