Starmer's vision quest

[briantrumpet]

Population/immigration comparisons such as Manchester or Birmingham are akin to measuring volume in units of olympic sized swimming pools, or distance in units of football pitches.

Don't forget the metric measurements of area, the Isleofwight and the Wales, and height in the Doubledeckerbus.

 

[CXRAndy]

Population/immigration comparisons such as Manchester or Birmingham are akin to measuring volume in units of olympic sized swimming pools, or distance in units of football pitches.

Because it's easier to comprehend the impact. Just saying a figure, doesn't give the measure. To say we need to build a new city the size of Manchester or Birmingham to accommodate new immigrants pushes home the enormity of the problem besieging this country.


There needs to be a significant into the millions of population reduction for the UK and soon.

 

[C R]

Don't forget the metric measurements of area, the Isleofwight and the Wales, and height in the Doubledeckerbus.

There's a handy summary of such measurement units in here, courtesy of El Reg


View: https://youtu.be/Qrx_mgd9RV4?si=39B__eYE0mx6dmL3

 

[AndyRM]

Because it's easier to comprehend the impact. Just saying a figure, doesn't give the measure. To say we need to build a new city the size of Manchester or Birmingham to accommodate new immigrants pushes home the enormity of the problem besieging this country.


There needs to be a significant into the millions of population reduction for the UK and soon.

We don't need to build a new city the size of Birmingham or Manchester, that's ridiculous.

As is saying we need to reduce the population by millions. What are we gonna go for, a genocide?

 

[classic33]

Yes, you should have a choice, within limits. I'm not against assisted dying per se. In fact we have it to some extent already. I'm against a bill that is as poorly constructed and ill considered as this one.

As to dignity, we should come to a reasonable consensus as a society as to what it means if we are going to expect the state to assist us to kill ourselves because we don't have it. Some people might think living life in a wheelchair or with blindness means no dignity for them. Would we want assisted dying available for the blind?

It's a sign of society's failure that we see it as undignified to need a high level of help with an illness or disability, or that people who need high amounts of intimate care are viewed as living undignified lives.

It's not all just dignity, there's quality of life from the view of the person living with the illness/disability. If I were to "come round" from a bad one and find that I'm now bed bound due to something that happened during it, the quality of life has been drastically been reduced. That wouldn't for me be a life I'd want to be around for.

Telling the person with a disability/illness that you know better than them, about the impact on their daily lives isn't very dignified. It comes over as callous, unsympathetic and demeaning.

As a result of a series of a few "not so bad ones", including one where I was hit by a bus during it, I got a DNR put on record. So it's not always about letting anyone help us die, just let the body do what it wants, don't keep us alive. The money, since that is all that matters for some people, used to keep me alive could be better spent on others with a better outlook in store for them. There'd be no bed taken up, no assigned nurse(s) and no machines doing what the body should be able to do normally.

The last "not so bad one" had me looking like "something out of a cheap zombie movie" according to one person who saw me that night. Blood streaming from the head. I'd cracked the skull in two places and cut the head open in three, as I'd later be told.

It's not a visible disability for 98% of the time, but the 2% where it is visible can scare the hell out of some people. But it's what the majority base their opinions on, not the day to day stuff. The treatments that can't, or won't, be given because of the underlying condition.

Maybe we as a society need to stop telling those living with an disability/illness/condition that we don't have any idea how their lives are impacted by it. There's parts no-one will see, leaving just what you have seen to base your judgement on. If society wants to have their mind put at ease, because it's easier deal with, then maybe "society" has it wrong.

 

[classic33]

Because it's easier to comprehend the impact. Just saying a figure, doesn't give the measure. To say we need to build a new city the size of Manchester or Birmingham to accommodate new immigrants pushes home the enormity of the problem besieging this country.


There needs to be a significant into the millions of population reduction for the UK and soon.

It also feeds the fear that building another city is what will be next on the cards.
Those once green fields surrounding your house, you don't want to lose. Especially that view out over open farmland that you enjoy from your property. Which under the present government, now can be considered for new housing.

 

[icowden]

I'm confused by your statement. The immigration figure for the last full year to end of June 2024 was over 700,000 and the city of Manchester has a population of approx 600,000.

One year is not every year, which is what you alleged.

 

[CXRAndy]

We don't need to build a new city the size of Birmingham or Manchester, that's ridiculous.

As is saying we need to reduce the population by millions. What are we gonna go for, a genocide?

You will need to keep building and providing infrastructure, services, doctors, schools, shopping, hospitals. So yes you will on essence need to build another area the size of a big city

 

[First Aspect]

We don't need to build a new city the size of Birmingham or Manchester, that's ridiculous.

As is saying we need to reduce the population by millions. What are we gonna go for, a genocide?

If we reduce the population by millions, and most of those are of working age, you actually make the problem much worse. Same reasoning applies to restricting immigration too much.

What we need are fewer old people, but my understanding is that the demographic balance will reset itself to an extent when the glut of boomers passes through. Clearly it won't be the same as when we all used to smoke heavily and let cancer run it's course, active promote heart disease and die of TB or the plague, but it will be better than it is looking now.

At which point we will start suffering from the effects of low birth rates and start competing for young immigrants with counties that have been less xenophobic for the preceding generation.

 

[CXRAndy]

One year is not every year, which is what you alleged.

There is no sign of slowing down, unless a major halt to immigration is undertaken

 

[First Aspect]

Because it's easier to comprehend the impact. Just saying a figure, doesn't give the measure. To say we need to build a new city the size of Manchester or Birmingham to accommodate new immigrants pushes home the enormity of the problem besieging this country.


There needs to be a significant into the millions of population reduction for the UK and soon.

I'm okay with the decimal system, personally.

Which millions of people do you want to leave? Do you have a selection process in mind?

Intelligence would be my choice. In which case, where would you go?

 

[C R]

It's not all just dignity, there's quality of life from the view of the person living with the illness/disability. If I were to "come round" from a bad one and find that I'm now bed bound due to something that happened during it, the quality of life has been drastically been reduced. That wouldn't for me be a life I'd want to be around for.

Telling the person with a disability/illness that you know better than them, about the impact on their daily lives isn't very dignified. It comes over as callous, unsympathetic and demeaning.

As a result of a series of a few "not so bad ones", including one where I was hit by a bus during it, I got a DNR put on record. So it's not always about letting anyone help us die, just let the body do what it wants, don't keep us alive. The money, since that is all that matters for some people, used to keep me alive could be better spent on others with a better outlook in store for them. There'd be no bed taken up, no assigned nurse(s) and no machines doing what the body should be able to do normally.

The last "not so bad one" had me looking like "something out of a cheap zombie movie" according to one person who saw me that night. Blood streaming from the head. I'd cracked the skull in two places and cut the head open in three, as I'd later be told.

It's not a visible disability for 98% of the time, but the 2% where it is visible can scare the hell out of some people. But it's what the majority base their opinions on, not the day to day stuff. The treatments that can't, or won't, be given because of the underlying condition.

Maybe we as a society need to stop telling those living with an disability/illness/condition that we don't have any idea how their lives are impacted by it. There's parts no-one will see, leaving just what you have seen to base your judgement on. If society wants to have their mind put at ease, because it's easier deal with, then maybe "society" has it wrong.

Indeed, that was Ramón Sampedro's argument all along.

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm okay with the decimal system, personally.

Which millions of people do you want to leave? Do you have a selection process in mind?

Intelligence would be my choice. In which case, where would you go?

I'd go with political inclination. Lefties, liberals first. In which case where would you go 🤔 😁

 

[First Aspect]

I'd go with political inclination. Lefties, liberals first. In which case where would you go 🤔 😁

The Republic of Scotland, probably.

 

[Pblakeney]

The Republic of Scotland, probably.

Quite possibly.
"Scotland is the only UK country with a projected [population] fall by 2045," said Esther Roughsedge, head of population and migration statistics at NRS.