Starmer's vision quest

[Psamathe]

[Alzheimer's] lIt is not a pleasant way to go.

My Dad died in a care home with vascular dementia progressed to the point where he didn't recognise us nor Mum.

I doubt the assisted dying proposal would help many with dementia as (my understanding) most with dementia die of something else eg my Dad died of Covid in a care home. No "less than 6 months" prognosis.

But (as we're talking about dementia) significant is the psychological hell Dad went through when it became apparent he had dementia. Sister in law's Mum he knew had severe dementia for years so he knew exactly where he was going, what was going to happen to him and nothing on Earth can stop it.

Ian

 

[Pblakeney]

I didn't notice a breakdown showing legals vs illegals, in your figures, but, does it matter, either way, they are still people. To me, three quarters of a million people is a lot of people (not to mention, a lot of house, cars, school places, doctors appointments, etc).

Well, if the vast majority are legal (Spoiler alert, they are) then they must be deemed as required, if not essential.
In which case the real problem is a lack of future planning for the necessary infrastructure.

 

[Psamathe]

Well, if the vast majority are legal (Spoiler alert, they are) then they must be deemed as required, if not essential.
In which case the real problem is a lack of future planning for the necessary infrastructure.

My interpretation is "illegal migrants" are those who arrive seeking asylum whose claims are rejected at which point they are no longer asylum seekers but migrants and with no right to be in UK. As you say they are a small minority of refugees seeking asylum.

Which is where Starmer's plan to "offshore" them is madness. If we can't return them to the country of their nationality (eg it's unsafe or we don't know their nationality) then moving them to an overseas location is in effect moving them there forever - and any country taking such is in effect taking them as migrants with permanent residence as they can't return them to their country of nationality either.

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

You continually fail to appreciate that SOME people dont want to "be looked after", they want a CHOICE.

You are entirely wrong in saying I don't appreciate that. In making it possible for people to have a choice we do need safeguards though, including making sure it really is a choice not just a normalised inevitability.

 

[Mr Celine]

If you stop eating and drinking then it becomes a physical illness which is inevitably terminal. That's what the eating disorder charities are worried about. It makes it an option for a mental health issue when we know suicidal ideation is part of anorexia.

You've never been able to get a DS1500 (or latterly in Scotland a BASRIS) for anorexia.

So doctors aren't, and never have been, willing to sign a form to allow anorexics to claim enhanced benefits. Why then do you think they would sign a form to allow them to choose assisted dying?

 

[Pblakeney]

Offshoring people makes Starmer no better than Trump.
Out of sight, out of mind might seem the easy option but there will be consequences.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If we can't return them to the country of their nationality (eg it's unsafe or we don't know their nationality) then moving them to an overseas location is in effect moving them there forever. -

A large proportion of UK asylum seekers, approx 8k a year, are from Iran, who do not accept any returnees as far as I know. I can't imagine how this plan will work when the Tory one didn't.

Edit: Actually, I reckon China would take the Afghans, process them all as refusals then bus them over the border to Afghanistan whether the Taliban liked it or not, if there was enough money in it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You've never been able to get a DS1500 (or latterly in Scotland a BASRIS) for anorexia.

So doctors aren't, and never have been, willing to sign a form to allow anorexics to claim enhanced benefits. Why do you think they would sign a form to allow them to choose assisted dying?

There would be no point signing the form if anorexics are ruled by the state to be ineligible for benefits. If they are ruled by the state to be eligible for assisted dying then presumably (some) medics would be prepared to sign because it would become part and parcel of NHS healthcare.

In short though, giving anorexics enhanced benefits would cost the state money and set a precedent; assisted dying won't cost anything.

 

[Stevo 666]

I do, I'm just not able to get beyond the paywall. So what's the craic?

Matticus beat me to it.

 

[Mr Celine]

There would be no point signing the form if anorexics are ruled by the state to be ineligible for benefits. If they are ruled by the state to be eligible for assisted dying then presumably (some) medics would be prepared to sign because it would become part and parcel of NHS healthcare.

Anorexics aren't ruled by the state to be ineligible for benefits. The decision to issue a DS1500 or BASRIS lies solely with a doctor.