Starmer's vision quest

[Stevo 666]

It would be electoral suicide, because the laying the blame on the Tories grace period is coming to an end.

I am still betting in threshold freeze until the end of the century, and being told it's not a tax rise, honest.

It will also be quite amusing to see if they keep on banging on about 'black holes' if theirs turns out to be bigger 🙂

 

[Stevo 666]

The high tax rates of the mid to late 1970s may have spawned the tax avoidance industry through companies like Rossminster, but avoidance by the wealthy was around for decades before then. For example the Duke of Westminster, or the egregious activities of the Vesty family.
But as Income Tax rates, particularly for the wealthy, fell with Thatcher and subsequent governments, avoidance didn't fall, it grew. That growth was fuelled not by tax rates, but by companies earning large sums of money from devising schemes which could be mass marketed to all groups of earners; from multimillionaire business owners to factory workers. Neither was it restricted to Income Tax. VAT, Corporation Tax, National Insurance, CGT and Stamp Duty were all attacked.
What has changed is;
a) Governments being more proactive in tackling avoidance, whether this be with the introduction of broader legislation such as the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Scheme (DOTAS), or the introduction of specific legislation to block loopholes that were being exploited.
b) The Court's view of the transactions which form the avoidance schemes.

I don't disagree with most of that - you see it in other countries where tax rates are/were too high - or are at least perceived to be so.

The other industry that it spawned was the 'go to another country where the tax environment is a bit more friendly' industry. Not just for people, but for business activity, investment etc.

 

[secretsqirrel]

It would be electoral suicide, because the laying the blame on the Tories grace period is coming to an end.

I am still betting in threshold freeze until the end of the century, and being told it's not a tax rise, honest.

Laying the blame on the Tories will not stop any time soon.

Look how long the Tories have been dining out on the 70s

 

[Stevo 666]

Laying the blame on the Tories will not stop any time soon.

Look how long the Tories have been dining out on the 70s

I agree it won't stop, but people are going to stop believing it. Much easier to just assume that it's all leftiebollox from the get-go 🙂

 

[Psamathe]

It would be electoral suicide, because the laying the blame on the Tories grace period is coming to an end.

I agree it won't stop, but people are going to stop believing it. Much easier to just assume that it's all leftiebollox from the get-go 🙂

I think many have already stopped believing it. Labour have had over a year yet still no real growth and indicators looking bad. OBR never upheld anything like Labour's "blackhole" amounts (maybe 'cos it was Labour's decisions after taking power tbat doubled the amount!

Basically things not looking any better than under Conservatives... maybe because we seem to have LINO pursuing more right wing policies.

Ian

 

[Bazzer]

I don't disagree with most of that - you see it in other countries where tax rates are/were too high - or are at least perceived to be so.

The other industry that it spawned was the 'go to another country where the tax environment is a bit more friendly' industry. Not just for people, but for business activity, investment etc.

There are several countries now which actively market themselves as money friendly havens. They have twigged that certain States had made a pretty good living out of brass plates and secrecy.
The Swiss were doing it for decades, but without the overt marketing until external pressure following certain financial revelations.

 

[briantrumpet]

No optimism here:

https://freethinkecon.wordpress.com/2025/07/15/there-really-is-no-getting-out-of-this-fiscal-corner/

Meanwhile over in France, right-wing PM Bayrou is likening the upcoming national budget to a 'household budget', as per Thatcher, proposing freezing pensions for a year, cancelling two public holidays, and asking ill people on social security to be less ill. Just hoping that my train on 28 July will still be running... I have a feeling the unions will have something to say.

 

[Stevo 666]

There are several countries now which actively market themselves as money friendly havens. They have twigged that certain States had made a pretty good living out of brass plates and secrecy.
The Swiss were doing it for decades, but without the overt marketing until external pressure following certain financial revelations.

There's more to it than the 'brass plate' havens. Take Ireland for example, which attracted a lot of US and tech investment mainly on the back of a competitive corporate tax rate, all while being a respectable EU member state.

 

[Stevo 666]

I think many have already stopped believing it. Labour have had over a year yet still no real growth and indicators looking bad. OBR never upheld anything like Labour's "blackhole" amounts (maybe 'cos it was Labour's decisions after taking power tbat doubled the amount!

Basically things not looking any better than under Conservatives... maybe because we seem to have LINO pursuing more right wing policies.

Ian

Not sure that NI hikes, VAT on private education, new workers rights bill, chucking money at the unions and public sector etc are LINO. Policies like those are contributing to the problems.

And now they're flirting with the idea of one of the classic leftiebollox tax policies, wealth tax.

 

[Psamathe]

Not sure that NI hikes, VAT on private education, new workers rights bill, chucking money at the unions and public sector etc are LINO.

It's never completely one way by my view is things like cutting winter fuel allowance to the vulnerable, cutting disabled benefits, etc. are not very "Labour". And they are major aspects of what they've done. Add less planning scrutiny for developers, lower affordable housing requirements, cutting environmental protections, etc.

Ian

 

[Stevo 666]

It's never completely one way by my view is things like cutting winter fuel allowance to the vulnerable, cutting disabled benefits, etc. are not very "Labour". And they are major aspects of what they've done. Add less planning scrutiny for developers, lower affordable housing requirements, cutting environmental protections, etc.

Ian

True, they do seem to be a bit 'schizo' in some ways. Seems to me that by doing this, they have managed to be on the side of neither the underprivileged nor business.

 

[Psamathe]

Seems to me that by doing this, they have managed to be on the side of neither the underprivileged nor business.

My impression is they are obsessed with making "difficult decisions" where what the country needs is "good decisions". They seem happy as long as they can boast about "difficult decisions " like it's some sort of macho "mine are harder than your's" thing. Time for some good decisions please (but I can't see it happening from current incumbents).

Ian