Starmer's vision quest

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Stevo 666

Stevo 666

Über Member
spen666 said:
IF (and its a big IF) Rayner is sacked / resigns from her position in Cabinet over this story, where does that leave her as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.

Starmer appointed her as Housing Minister, so he can remove her from that role, but the Labour Party members voted her as Deputy Leader.
Could we potentially ( theoretically?) have a situation where Starmer sacks her as Housing Minister, and as a result falls out with her yet still has to work with her as Deputy Leader of the party and is unable to do anything about this?
Click to expand...

Quite possibly - you would hope she would have the good sense to step down as deputy PM if Starmer fires her from her Ministerial role. Not least because the possibility of Rayner running the country if something happens to Starmer is quite a scary thought.
 
spen666

spen666

Senior Member
Stevo 666 said:
Quite possibly - you would hope she would have the good sense to step down as deputy PM if Starmer fires her from her Ministerial role.
Click to expand...
You would hope for the sake of things that if ( and this is theoretical) such a situation arose then they would step down as Deputy leader of the party, but if in a hypothetical situation you had a deputy who was desperate to be leader, they may think remaining as deputy would best enable them to undermine the current leader and to help them become leader.

I have no idea how such a situation would work, in the same way, I don't know how a party could remove a now unpopular leader or deputy leader from their party roles. Are their rules in the constitution for this to happen? We obviously know there are for the Tories as this happened in the last Parliament with no confidence letters to the 1922 Committee
 
Bromptonaut

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke, Northants
spen666 said:
IF (and its a big IF) Rayner is sacked / resigns from her position in Cabinet over this story, where does that leave her as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.

Starmer appointed her as Housing Minister, so he can remove her from that role, but the Labour Party members voted her as Deputy Leader.
Could we potentially ( theoretically?) have a situation where Starmer sacks her as Housing Minister, and as a result falls out with her yet still has to work with her as Deputy Leader of the party and is unable to do anything about this?
Click to expand...

Her Ministerial role and, presumably, the title of Deputy PM are in Starmer's gift and he can sack her if she failed to resign after, say, an ambiguous outcome from Magnus.

The prospect of her being sacked but remaining Deputy Leader on the back benches must be Starmer's nightmare.
 
Stevo 666

Stevo 666

Über Member
spen666 said:
You would hope for the sake of things that if ( and this is theoretical) such a situation arose then they would step down as Deputy leader of the party, but if in a hypothetical situation you had a deputy who was desperate to be leader, they may think remaining as deputy would best enable them to undermine the current leader and to help them become leader.

I have no idea how such a situation would work, in the same way, I don't know how a party could remove a now unpopular leader or deputy leader from their party roles. Are their rules in the constitution for this to happen? We obviously know there are for the Tories as this happened in the last Parliament with no confidence letters to the 1922 Committee
Click to expand...

My limited understanding is that the Deputy PM is elected by the members and cannot be removed by the PM. Although whether there is any more detail behind that in the Labour constitution such as exceptions where (say) the ministerial code has been broken, I don't know. I am guessing that this will be quite well analysed in the media if the scenario of her being sacked as a minister but hangs on as Deputy PM comes to pass. I'm sure some people will be googling this as we speak...
 
Stevo 666

Stevo 666

Über Member
Bromptonaut said:
Her Ministerial role and, presumably, the title of Deputy PM are in Starmer's gift and he can sack her if she failed to resign after, say, an ambiguous outcome from Magnus.

The prospect of her being sacked but remaining Deputy Leader on the back benches must be Starmer's nightmare.
Click to expand...

See above - I don't believe that Starmer can sack her as deputy PM. But let's see if that becomes necessary.
 
Psamathe

Psamathe

Veteran
spen666 said:
IF (and its a big IF) Rayner is sacked / resigns from her position in Cabinet over this story, where does that leave her as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.

Starmer appointed her as Housing Minister, so he can remove her from that role, but the Labour Party members voted her as Deputy Leader.
Could we potentially ( theoretically?) have a situation where Starmer sacks her as Housing Minister, and as a result falls out with her yet still has to work with her as Deputy Leader of the party and is unable to do anything about this?
Click to expand...
Stevo 666 said:
My limited understanding is that the Deputy PM is elected by the members and cannot be removed by the PM. Although whether there is any more detail behind that in the Labour constitution such as exceptions where (say) the ministerial code has been broken, I don't know. I am guessing that this will be quite well analysed in the media if the scenario of her being sacked as a minister but hangs on as Deputy PM comes to pass. I'm sure some people will be googling this as we speak...
Click to expand...
From specialist political commemntators on TV last night the post of Deputy Labour Party Leader and Deputy PM are not linked. In practice the Deputy leader is also Deputy PM but it's not a requirement. She should resign her ministerial role and remain Deputy PM. Although not specifically raised by commentators I heard I thus also assume she could step down from being an MP and still remain Deputy Party Leader.
 
spen666

spen666

Senior Member
This lady has it right about behaviour of politicians


View: https://x.com/i/status/1963884542516990257
 
CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Legendary Member
spen666 said:
IF (and its a big IF) Rayner is sacked / resigns from her position in Cabinet over this story, where does that leave her as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.

Starmer appointed her as Housing Minister, so he can remove her from that role, but the Labour Party members voted her as Deputy Leader.
Could we potentially ( theoretically?) have a situation where Starmer sacks her as Housing Minister, and as a result falls out with her yet still has to work with her as Deputy Leader of the party and is unable to do anything about this?
Click to expand...
Gotta be Lammy. Hes dumb as a box of rocks, will make excellent entertainment
 
Stevo 666

Stevo 666

Über Member
Psamathe said:
From specialist political commemntators on TV last night the post of Deputy Labour Party Leader and Deputy PM are not linked. In practice the Deputy leader is also Deputy PM but it's not a requirement. She should resign her ministerial role and remain Deputy PM. Although not specifically raised by commentators I heard I thus also assume she could step down from being an MP and still remain Deputy Party Leader.
Click to expand...

Good point, I hadn't actually twigged that Deputy PM and Deputy party leader were two different positions.
 
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