Starmer's vision quest

[Stevo 666]

Immigrants may not be your issue
People with billion dollar portfolios may be your issue.



It's is arrogant and out of touch for you to tell others what their issues are or are not.


Telling people what their issues are or are not will not persuade anyone you are right.

Telling people what their issues are is condescending leftiebollox. And the same people who spout this condescension also wonder why Reform are so popular.

 

[AndyRM]

Personally I reckon that Reform are masters of telling people what to think.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Personally I reckon that Reform are masters of telling people what to think.

They use those little linguistic tricks like:

”It’s what the British people want”
”Sovereignty“
”Stand up for British culture”
”Britain is broken”
“Britain in crisis”
”Mass immigration destroying our country”
”woke ideology”
”transgender indoctrination”

They imply a vacuous notion of British identity, and then the threat. The message is getting through because its easy to understand and swallow without much thought.

 

[cookiemonster]

I guess this could be relevant for people living in Hong Kong

View attachment 9952

As you mention, I live in HK and have done for 12 years.

Yes, money talks here but there is a massive difference. Energy prices, communication, food, transport are all way cheaper than they are in the UK. The HK Gov has a large degree of control over energy prices as an example. In fact, due to the worldwide drop in energy prices, HK will see a drop of 7% in energy bills starting this month. I can't see that happening in the UK. I pay in about 3 months what many people in the UK pay in one month. OK, we don't have central heating but we have air conditioners and they're just as expensive.

When I get back to tropical Speyside (where I grew up), I'm shocked at what you guys are paying for things. Housing is expensive but there are bargains to be had, if you know where to look and, in my case, Mr Cookiemonster's parents knew a few people as well. I live in a 3 bedroom apartment in Tin Shui Wai, a few miles from the Chinese border and is not considered to be a desirable location (it's a nice part of HK with good biking routes and not as built up as some parts of HK), and I pay the equivalent of £1200 a month for it. Easily £1000-£2000 a month less if I lived the other side of the Tai Lam Tunnel. Which leads me on to another point. The HK Gov took all the tunnels back under their control and halved the tunnel fees. They just let the contracts expire and took them back in house. HK has quite a few of them, especially between Kowloon and HK Island. Can you imagine the UK Gov doing that? The privateers would have a fit.

Of course, HK is not perfect. There is a high profile campaign to deal with the poverty here in HK, especially with the elderly population (and I have to say, egged on by Beijing) as we have one of the most unequal societies on earth but there's action being taken, led by the younger generation, to deal with that. There's no VAT here in HK but there are signs that there may be 2.5% sales tax added to some items to pay for infrastructure projects but that does seem to be a few years away.

Another issue about your picture, Havana (Cuba) has been under US sanctions for about 70 or so years as the USA are still pissed that the previous leader, Batista, was overthrown and Cuba stopped being a Mafia state. So that's an unfair comparison.

Socialism gave the UK the NHS and the welfare state (despite massive opposition from the Tories) as well as education and plentiful (and affordable) housing. Capitalism has ripped that apart. You can have a capitalist society but with some restraints, as we have here in HK.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

As you mention, I live in HK and have done for 12 years.

Yes, money talks here but there is a massive difference. Energy prices, communication, food, transport are all way cheaper than they are in the UK. The HK Gov has a large degree of control over energy prices as an example. In fact, due to the worldwide drop in energy prices, HK will see a drop of 7% in energy bills starting this month. I can't see that happening in the UK. I pay in about 3 months what many people in the UK pay in one month. OK, we don't have central heating but we have air conditioners and they're just as expensive.

When I get back to tropical Speyside (where I grew up), I'm shocked at what you guys are paying for things. Housing is expensive but there are bargains to be had, if you know where to look and, in my case, Mr Cookiemonster's parents knew a few people as well. I live in a 3 bedroom apartment in Tin Shui Wai, a few miles from the Chinese border and is not considered to be a desirable location (it's a nice part of HK with good biking routes and not as built up as some parts of HK), and I pay the equivalent of £1200 a month for it. Easily £1000-£2000 a month less if I lived the other side of the Tai Lam Tunnel. Which leads me on to another point. The HK Gov took all the tunnels back under their control and halved the tunnel fees. They just let the contracts expire and took them back in house. HK has quite a few of them, especially between Kowloon and HK Island. Can you imagine the UK Gov doing that? The privateers would have a fit.

Of course, HK is not perfect. There is a high profile campaign to deal with the poverty here in HK, especially with the elderly population (and I have to say, egged on by Beijing) as we have one of the most unequal societies on earth but there's action being taken, led by the younger generation, to deal with that. There's no VAT here in HK but there are signs that there may be 2.5% sales tax added to some items to pay for infrastructure projects but that does seem to be a few years away.

Another issue about your picture, Havana (Cuba) has been under US sanctions for about 70 or so years as the USA are still pissed that the previous leader, Batista, was overthrown and Cuba stopped being a Mafia state. So that's an unfair comparison.

Socialism gave the UK the NHS and the welfare state (despite massive opposition from the Tories) as well as education and plentiful (and affordable) housing. Capitalism has ripped that apart. You can have a capitalist society but with some restraints, as we have here in HK.

Too many facts in there = leftiebollox

 

[Rusty Nails]

You're disappointed that you couldn't do your little leftie 'gotcha'. Better luck next time 😉

Weasel words like "apparently" are often used give a false impression of fact while allowing the opportunity to weasel out of the intent behind it and is nothing at all to do with right or left...except obviously in your rather peculiar obsession with the ill-defined pejorative "lefties".

 

[briantrumpet]

It does rather seem that every day Labour is simply agreeing with and promoting the agenda set by the far right. Either that, or they are utterly spineless cowards. Maybe both. And I wouldn't disagree with Elledge's pithy response.

Starmer MIA, but without the IA bit.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It’s not so much seeing so many racists, we always knew they were there. The scary part is they’re happy to be seen there and giving their views to TV crews rather than hiding behind scarves or masks.

Racism is never far below the surface in any society, and not just in the sort of neanderthals that support Yaxley-Lennon.

Sadly it will never be completely eliminated in the human race.

 

[icowden]

Saw this today on the beeb:
Mandelson should never have been ambassador, says Epstein victim's family

I was taken by this hot take from Laura Trott (who she?)

Shadow education secretary Laura Trott said the Conservatives would "use every mechanism that is available to us to force the truth to come out".
She asked: "How have we ended up in a situation where the advice for the prime minister is to appoint the 'best pal' of a convicted paedophile to be US ambassador?"

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people don't seem to know what the job of an ambassador entails.

Surely the answer to this question is that the reason for appointing the "best pal" of a convicted paedophile to be US ambassador is because the the US President is also a best pal of the same convicted paedophile. The point of appointing someone as oleaginous as Mandy is that the ambassador needs to be able to lick Trump's arse whilst keeping a straight face to get the best trade deals out of the US.

Mandelson wasn't appointed because he was an all round nice bloke with no skeletons in the closet. Quite the reverse. And the principle benefit of using him is that he wasn't shagging underaged girls due to being gay.

 

[briantrumpet]

Saw this today on the beeb:
Mandelson should never have been ambassador, says Epstein victim's family

I was taken by this hot take from Laura Trott (who she?)


I'm getting the impression that a lot of people don't seem to know what the job of an ambassador entails.

Surely the answer to this question is that the reason for appointing the "best pal" of a convicted paedophile to be US ambassador is because the the US President is also a best pal of the same convicted paedophile. The point of appointing someone as oleaginous as Mandy is that the ambassador needs to be able to lick Trump's arse whilst keeping a straight face to get the best trade deals out of the US.

Mandelson wasn't appointed because he was an all round nice bloke with no skeletons in the closet. Quite the reverse. And the principle benefit of using him is that he wasn't shagging underaged girls due to being gay.

All that might be true, but probably still best not to appoint someone with very personal links to a convicted paedophile who could be open to blackmail. I'd assume that's why the security services flagged him up.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Socialism gave the UK the NHS and the welfare state (despite massive opposition from the Tories)

The NHS was proposed by a Liberal, Beveridge, and had wide political support. It was in Churchill's election manifesto. I think it's a bit of a myth that the principle of a national health service was pushed through by socialists against the wishes of other parties.

 

[briantrumpet]

I think that this is spot on. It wouldn't be hard for Starmer to formulate a statement condemning xenophobia, and expressing the most modest gratitude for the contribution that immigrants have made to the UK. From his total silence, I can only assume that either he doesn't have those thoughts, or Mc Sweeney is preventing him stating them. Either way, he's just validating the message of the far right through his silence (let alone the 'legitimate concerns' statements).

It really is quite extraordinary. Not a peep from Starmer.

 

[briantrumpet]

Glad Starmer's been reading this thread.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vz91x5ynzo

Britain will not surrender its flag to those that wish to use it as a symbol of violence, fear and division, Sir Keir Starmer has said.
The prime minister said the flag represents "our diverse country" and he will not allow people to feel intimidated on "our streets because of their background or the colour of their skin".
His comments come after more than 150,000 people took to the streets of central London for a "Unite the Kingdom" march organised by far-right activist Tommy Robinson.
The prime minister said: "People have a right to peaceful protest. It is core to our country's values.
"But we will not stand for assaults on police officers doing their job or for people feeling intimidated on our streets because of their background or the colour of their skin.
"Britain is nation proudly built on tolerance, diversity and respect. Our flag represents our diverse country and we will never surrender it to those that use it as a symbol of violence, fear and division."

 

[Xipe Totec]

I think we have to accept that the government has decided that the massive extreme-right white supremacist racist rally which took place in the heart of the capital yesterday was not in any way racist.

 

[Psamathe]

I think we have to accept that the government has decided that the massive extreme-right white supremacist racist rally which took place in the heart of the capital yesterday was not in any way racist.

And lots of voters who might vote for a far enough right Labour Party ...