Starmer's vision quest

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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
When I heard that on the news I thought it sounded like bollox considering the vast majority of 'proper Brits' (myself included) don't have 'A' level English and many don't have GCSE / 'O' level either. The BBC news was particularly Reform-like yesterday covering this announcement; the court case for the guy that threatened to kill Farage and the asylum seeker on trial for stabbing a woman to death. No issue with either of the latter cases being covered (although I do wonder whether the stabbing case would have been considered worthy of national news coverage if the alleged perpetrator hadn't been an asylum seeker as similar cases tend not to get beyond the local news) but the wording felt quite Reformish with talk of the alleged attacker 'returning to this hotel' with images of the hotel in question.

Personally, I didn’t regard the hotel bit particularly biased. It appeared to be one of the few bits of evidence to implicate him, and, the video footage was hardly conclusive. But, I do agree that reporting it on National News was unusual, since, sadly, such incidents generally go unreported.
 
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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
But everyone should be able to speak English surely?

Have you been to Newcastle?, or, Ashington ? 😂
 

First Aspect

Über Member

briantrumpet

Legendary Member
The argument there was it was a universal benefit going to lots of people who didn't need it. Which is probably true, but the costs were relatively low so it was a stupid fight to pick.

I'd forgotten that one as an example of how terrible their political ground preparation was for stuff like this - see also farmers' inheritance tax, digital ID, etc. Really basic stuff... if you can't get it right (preparation and policy) on relatively trivial things, what chance have they got on the big stuff?
 

Psamathe

Veteran
The argument there was it was a universal benefit going to lots of people who didn't need it. Which is probably true, but the costs were relatively low so it was a stupid fight to pick.
Plus, that she didn't appreciate the idea that many in desperate need were not claiming her "criteria" as well as setting her bar far too low. When taking from those in need why did she not check a bit first and failure to do so puts her into the Ms Truss group - "act before thinking".
 

briantrumpet

Legendary Member
But everyone should be able to speak English surely?

An interesting reflection on language change is that the French schooling system was changed at the end of the 19th century specifically to kill the regional languages as the dominant ones in the regions (Breton, Occitan, etc), to be replaced by official French, and it was so successful that grandchildren & grandparents couldn't converse fluently with each other, the middle generation being the interpreters.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Plus, that she didn't appreciate the idea that many in desperate need were not claiming her "criteria" as well as setting her bar far too low. When taking from those in need why did she not check a bit first and failure to do so puts her into the Ms Truss group - "act before thinking".

not to mention that using a "gateway benefit" (Pension Credit) to give access to yet another "prize", just made the existing warped system even more warped.
 

monkers

Shaman
If I may just intervene with an apolitical fact. There is a noted decline in affordability of services. Political figures left, right, and centre like to discuss the cause of the decline and the party responsible using the now familiar array of true and false tropes around migrant, people living longer, the global financial collapse, covid19, scroungers, more dependence on services, the rising costs of providing services, Brexit etc, etc.

All true and valid for discussion, but critically in order to manage the decline, there needs to be a recognition - we no longer can afford what we've had. The North Sea revenue has been mostly extracted and spent. Without another such bonus around the corner, the only source of income is tax, otherwise there is borrowing without fixed interest rates. In other words the economy is volatile and vulnerable at the same time.

The apolitical fact. State pensions and benefits are both needed and unaffordable under the current model. In rounded numbers, the number of people whose NI payments were required to fund one state pension was 13 to 14. Today is less than 3. Some say the official figure for next year is 2.1 - unverified, but let us suppose for our purposes that it is close to accuracy.

I do know that people here hate Copilot, but I asked it to draw these graphs for me from the data.

BCEI.ad263e64-80d5-43a8-b510-5c7d5b68711b.png

Leaving about Copilot to the side please, the graph shows the trend and the problem. We must surely agree that the trend can not continue.

As workers age, they may hope for promotion and increased pay. Largely I think we'll manage to agree this happens. We can note that certain professions encourage early retirement ages, teachers, police, etc etc. When one examines the direct tax gap this creates, it is something like £2.1 bn lost. When the direct and indirect tax gaps are summed this produces a shortfall of around £6.3bn.

This while the numbers of state pensioners increases, and the number of benefit claimants increases, and the lost days to sickness increases.

BCEI.d108453c-4f4f-4d4a-b26a-280023452470.png


This is clearly an unsustainable model. Further ...

The number of jobs vacancies in the UK is in the order of 950 000.

There number of people temporarily unable to work due to NHS waiting lists is in the order of 800 000.

The number of migrants / asylum seekers prevented from working by government policy is hundreds of thousands.

Opinions are sure to vary, but governments of any stripe will tend to tinker around the edges rather than set out bold policies.

Ultimately, the choices are increase tax income to fund services or cut services and ignore any potential losses to GDP.

The choices are who the government decides must pay.

Nobody wishes to pay. Some can not pay. Some can pay and not be left short.

The moral impediment - maintain the government covenant or let those with money keep it.

Solutions on a postcard to Rachel in accounts please.
 
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First Aspect

Über Member
I'd forgotten that one as an example of how terrible their political ground preparation was for stuff like this - see also farmers' inheritance tax, digital ID, etc. Really basic stuff... if you can't get it right (preparation and policy) on relatively trivial things, what chance have they got on the big stuff?

They came to power like someone who, on realising that the pilot was in a coma, had just broken down the cockpit door and grasped the controls.

They immediately started steering and made a few people violently ill, when it would have been better to let the plane fly itself for a bit while they figured out which button was the radio.
 
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First Aspect

Über Member
If I may just intervene with an apolitical fact. There is a noted decline in affordability of services. Political figures left, right, and centre like to discuss the cause of the decline and the party responsible using the now familiar array of true and false tropes around migrant, people living longer, the global financial collapse, covid19, scroungers, more dependence on services, the rising costs of providing services, Brexit etc, etc.

All true and valid for discussion, but critically in order to manage the decline, there needs to be a recognition - we no longer can afford what we've had. The North Sea revenue has been mostly extracted and spent. Without another such bonus around the corner, the only source of income is tax, otherwise there is borrowing without fixed interest rates. In other words the economy is volatile and vulnerable at the same time.

The apolitical fact. State pensions and benefits are both needed and unaffordable under the current model. In rounded numbers, the number of people whose NI payments were required to fund one state pension was 13 to 14. Today is less than 3. Some say the official figure for next year is 2.1 - unverified, but let us suppose for our purposes that it is close to accuracy.

I do know that people here hate Copilot, but I asked it to draw these graphs for me from the data.

View attachment 10553
Leaving about Copilot to the side please, the graph shows the trend and the problem. We must surely agree that the trend can not continue.

As workers age, they may hope for promotion and increased pay. Largely I think we'll manage to agree this happens. We can note that certain professions encourage early retirement ages, teachers, police, etc etc. When one examines the direct tax gap this creates, it is something like £2.1 bn lost. When the direct and indirect tax gaps are summed this produces a shortfall of around £6.3bn.

This while the numbers of state pensioners increases, and the number of benefit claimants increases, and the lost days to sickness increases.

View attachment 10554

This is clearly an unsustainable model. Further ...

The number of jobs vacancies in the UK is in the order of 950 000.

There number of people temporarily unable to work due to NHS waiting lists is in the order of 800 000.

The number of migrants / asylum seekers prevented from working by government policy is hundreds of thousands.

Opinions are sure to vary, but governments of any stripe will tend to tinker around the edges rather than set out bold policies.

Ultimately, the choices are increase tax income to fund services or cut services and ignore any potential losses to GDP.

The choices are who the government decides must pay.

Nobody wishes to pay. Some can not pay. Some can pay and not be left short.

The moral impediment - maintain the government covenant or let those with money keep it.

Solutions on a postcard to Rachel in accounts please.

Isn't that first graph showing that you now need far fewer people to fund one pensioner? If so, that's great, happy days, because pensions are 4 times more affordable than 1950.

Clearly that's not the case. I think the data are probably showing number of workers per state pension. And copilot has generated AI nonsense.
 
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