Starmer's vision quest

[Ian H]

The Caliphate is here!

Merry Christmas everyone. Don't do anything silly.

 

[TailWindHome]

How come assets which generate such low incomes are so highly valued?

 

[TailWindHome]

Irrespective of your opinion on IHT for farms, it's astonishing just how bad they are at the politics.

My diagnosis is that they simply can't resist trying to be too clever.

 

[briantrumpet]

Irrespective of your opinion on IHT for farms, it's astonishing just how bad they are at the politics.

My diagnosis is that they simply can't resist trying to be too clever.

They screwed it up, like so many of their announcements, by not thinking through the implications and the likely pushbacks (fair and unfair). Not only did they not prepare the ground, but then when it was announced, it was an easy target. Ditto ID cards and others.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/i/status/2003510167397400776

 

[PurplePenguin]

Nor me, unless they just had £95k lying around which they wanted to expand the farm with (size, if not profitability), which seems unlikely.

By my calculations, 11 acres would have got me about £600 a year in rent; however, unless I got a formal contract in place, I would still be liable for things like stile maintenance. Therefore, I assumed I would be netting off some costs. Alternatively, I could do nothing and earn £3k+ in interest on the cash.

If I was planning on dying soon, I could see how the numbers might look a bit different if I was going to save £38k in inheritance tax. I had hoped that the planned tax changes were going to have an impact on this, but they seem to be stuck in the economics of a decade ago when we had low interest rates and no inheritance tax on farmland. Perhaps, it is like everything else to do with farming, and things move slowly.

The shame for me is that I wanted that particularly bit of land, so it's not like another opportunity is going to arise when the economics have changed and I actually have the cash.

 

[Psamathe]

Irrespective of your opinion on IHT for farms, it's astonishing just how bad they are at the politics.

My diagnosis is that they simply can't resist trying to be too clever.

They screwed it up, like so many of their announcements, by not thinking through the implications and the likely pushbacks (fair and unfair). Not only did they not prepare the ground, but then when it was announced, it was an easy target. Ditto ID cards and others.

And all those Labour MPs who spent time justifying the change and for rural constituency MPs getting "their ears bent" and suddenly "we were wrong" so they have to look like complete fools (again).

It gives the strong impression they are not thinking anything through so whatever plan they come-up with easy to assume it's full of loopholes and worth protesting against. Lost credibility.

Only marginally good aspect is that (as far as I know) no Labour MPs were slung out of the Party for arguing against the now ex-change.

 

[Psamathe]

My diagnosis is that they simply can't resist trying to be too clever.

I think a large part is desperation to raise revenue for spending after they ruled out raising the 3 main revenue taxes. They backed themselves into a daft corner so had to scrape around for whatever they thought they'd get away with. Stupidity (again).

 

[briantrumpet]

The shame for me is that I wanted that particularly bit of land, so it's not like another opportunity is going to arise when the economics have changed and I actually have the cash.

I think that that's what drives some of the sillier prices - they are often predicated on farmers having harboured wishes to have particular parcels of land for reasons other than purely economic, knowing that often these parcels only come up once in a generation or two, if you're lucky.

From the investment perspective, land has been a pretty good bet, but from the economic one, rarely so, especially in the less productive areas, such as upland or less suited to modern farming techniques.

 

[CXRAndy]

By my calculations, 11 acres would have got me about £600 a year in rent; however, unless I got a formal contract in place, I would still be liable for things like stile maintenance. Therefore, I assumed I would be netting off some costs. Alternatively, I could do nothing and earn £3k+ in interest on the cash.

If I was planning on dying soon, I could see how the numbers might look a bit different if I was going to save £38k in inheritance tax. I had hoped that the planned tax changes were going to have an impact on this, but they seem to be stuck in the economics of a decade ago when we had low interest rates and no inheritance tax on farmland. Perhaps, it is like everything else to do with farming, and things move slowly.

The shame for me is that I wanted that particularly bit of land, so it's not like another opportunity is going to arise when the economics have changed and I actually have the cash.

If you were buying the land for an investment. You're were right not to buy it.

You said you wanted it, we buy things all the time , not for profit, but enjoyment

Sound like you missed an opportunity

 

[PurplePenguin]

If you were buying the land for an investment. You're were right not to buy it.

You said you wanted it, we buy things all the time , not for profit, but enjoyment

Sound like you missed an opportunity

It's a fair point and I could tolerate the lack of return in exchange for the enjoyment, but everyone has their limits and mine was not wanting to potentially lose a load of money when I eventually sold it (10+ years away) and economic reality had hit.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I think that that's what drives some of the sillier prices - they are often predicated on farmers having harboured wishes to have particular parcels of land for reasons other than purely economic, knowing that often these parcels only come up once in a generation or two, if you're lucky.

From the investment perspective, land has been a pretty good bet, but from the economic one, rarely so, especially in the less productive areas, such as upland or less suited to modern farming techniques.

This was upland. Had little going for it. Sheep/silage.

 

[First Aspect]

By my calculations, 11 acres would have got me about £600 a year in rent; however, unless I got a formal contract in place, I would still be liable for things like stile maintenance. Therefore, I assumed I would be netting off some costs. Alternatively, I could do nothing and earn £3k+ in interest on the cash.

If I was planning on dying soon, I could see how the numbers might look a bit different if I was going to save £38k in inheritance tax. I had hoped that the planned tax changes were going to have an impact on this, but they seem to be stuck in the economics of a decade ago when we had low interest rates and no inheritance tax on farmland. Perhaps, it is like everything else to do with farming, and things move slowly.

The shame for me is that I wanted that particularly bit of land, so it's not like another opportunity is going to arise when the economics have changed and I actually have the cash.

If you rent it out to horsey people, you would get a hell of a lot more than that.

 

[briantrumpet]

This was upland. Had little going for it. Sheep/silage.

It's not even like there are huge subsidies for hill farming or less-favoured areas (LFAs), AFAIK, now, unless, post-EU, they've shifted support into proper environmental schemes. But that would be a flimsy long-term business plan.

 

[PurplePenguin]

It's not even like there are huge subsidies for hill farming or less-favoured areas (LFAs), AFAIK, now, unless, post-EU, they've shifted support into proper environmental schemes. But that would be a flimsy long-term business plan.

Those Brexits upsides keep on coming. Add it to your list.