Starmer's vision quest

[briantrumpet]

Thixotropic behaviour is fascinating, and not straightforward.

Slightly off topic but I did some work on dense phase conveying, whereby powders and particulates are moved along a pipe by carefully injecting compressed air. It has to get into the hopper to be transported somehow. Again, quite interesting.

The great thing about a forum is you can sit quietly and wait for someone to mention something you can pretend to be an expert in and then just make unchallenged definitive statements

Apologies for not having any views on dense phase conveying, even though I use pipes.

 

[First Aspect]

Is the plug effect thixotropic or simply non newtonian? I always thought those were not necessarily synonyms.

No idea. We didn't actually study this, which I think was a fairly big omission. I think non Newtonian is the genus and thixotropes a species.

 

[Psamathe]

As far as I am concerned IHT is completely separate from operating profit. I appreciate that farming is hard and they deserve to make money but to not mitigate against IHT is just silly.

Maybe part of the problem is just how daft our economic system has become. Something is worth what somebody will pay for it. The value of a business is often related to its earning potential (which can include things like growth and future potential). Ignoring the exceptions like land sale with planning permission for developments that means the value of farm land should be in relation to it's earning potential.

One of the main arguments against the initial IHT budget changes that farmers were using is that their businesses have high asset values in relation to their earnings potential which to me suggests their land is over-valued.

When you can sell an asset and get higher income from bank interest than working the asset I suspect that asset is over-valued.

But: sometimes people retain emotional links to assets eg I know somebody who rents out their house and they could get higher income (and less work) if they sold the house and put the money in a bank savings account. But they believe the house has capital value growth potential long term.

 

[Ian H]

One of the main arguments against the initial IHT budget changes that farmers were using is that their businesses have high asset values in relation to their earnings potential which to me suggests their land is over-valued

The removal of inheritance tax is the reason land became so expensive. It became a tax-dodge for the wealthy.

 

[First Aspect]

Maybe part of the problem is just how daft our economic system has become. Something is worth what somebody will pay for it. The value of a business is often related to its earning potential (which can include things like growth and future potential). Ignoring the exceptions like land sale with planning permission for developments that means the value of farm land should be in relation to it's earning potential.

One of the main arguments against the initial IHT budget changes that farmers were using is that their businesses have high asset values in relation to their earnings potential which to me suggests their land is over-valued.

When you can sell an asset and get higher income from bank interest than working the asset I suspect that asset is over-valued.

But: sometimes people retain emotional links to assets eg I know somebody who rents out their house and they could get higher income (and less work) if they sold the house and put the money in a bank savings account. But they believe the house has capital value growth potential long term.

I'm not a fan of IHT in the first place, but what you've just laid out is a good argument for setting the thresholds and rates differently for farms, which is exactly what they are.

The main problem is implementing a change that needs 5-10 years to adapt plans for, in under 12 months, so much as the change itself.

 

[C R]

No idea. We didn't actually study this, which I think was a fairly big omission. I think non Newtonian is the genus and thixotropes a species.

Sorry, you are right. I got it back to front.

 

[Pblakeney]

But: sometimes people retain emotional links to assets eg I know somebody who rents out their house and they could get higher income (and less work) if they sold the house and put the money in a bank savings account. But they believe the house has capital value growth potential long term.

Another anecdotal story. My Dad has been renting out his shop since he retired. After all expenses and taxes he has had an income of much more than the property value, and still owns the property. I cannot see a downside.

 

[BoldonLad]

Maybe part of the problem is just how daft our economic system has become. Something is worth what somebody will pay for it. The value of a business is often related to its earning potential (which can include things like growth and future potential). Ignoring the exceptions like land sale with planning permission for developments that means the value of farm land should be in relation to it's earning potential.

One of the main arguments against the initial IHT budget changes that farmers were using is that their businesses have high asset values in relation to their earnings potential which to me suggests their land is over-valued.

When you can sell an asset and get higher income from bank interest than working the asset I suspect that asset is over-valued.

But: sometimes people retain emotional links to assets eg I know somebody who rents out their house and they could get higher income (and less work) if they sold the house and put the money in a bank savings account. But they believe the house has capital value growth potential long term.

Not sure I understand the last paragraph?, are the considerations quoted business decisions, rather than emotional?

 

[BoldonLad]

Just out of interest can I ask what is your involvement in the farming industry?

As someone whose only involvement is eating the output I haven't a clue about the rights and wrongs of this debate.

Oh dear! I have obviously been doing this all wrong, I had not realised that expertise or knowledge in order to have an opinion. That should reduce the size of the forum significantly 😂

 

[BoldonLad]

Thixotropic behaviour is fascinating, and not straightforward.

Slightly off topic but I did some work on dense phase conveying, whereby powders and particulates are moved along a pipe by carefully injecting compressed air. It has to get into the hopper to be transported somehow. Again, quite interesting.

The great thing about a forum is you can sit quietly and wait for someone to mention something you can pretend to be an expert in and then just make unchallenged definitive statements

In my very early working life, I worked for a company which manufactured mineral insulated cable. The process basically involved putting copper conductors inside a larger diameter copper tube, packing the tube with a very fine powder. The tube was then “drawn” through a series of dies, producing an electrical cable. I have no idea the scientific reason, but, the behaviour of the powder as the process progressed was a constant source of problems.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: Madness of Proscribing
An example of how mad the recent proscribing has become "contagious" as companies go above and beyond to protect themselves of any Government "displeasure"

Grassroots group’s bank account frozen due to ‘Palestine Action investigation’
Greater Manchester Friends of Palestine, which has no affiliation to direct action group ...

A grassroots pro-Palestinian organisation in the UK has been told its bank account was frozen because of “an investigation into Palestine Action”, despite it having no affiliation to the direct action group.

Greater Manchester Friends of Palestine (GMFP), which organises peaceful protests and vigils, had access to its funds cut off indefinitely by Virgin Money after Palestine Action was banned under the Terrorism Act and the account remains blocked.


The bank refused to tell GMFP the reason but a letter from the deputy mayor of Greater Manchester, Kate Green, to the organisation’s treasurer, John Nicholson, said her office had been told by Greater Manchester police (GMP) that “this account has been frozen as a result of an investigation into Palestine Action”.