Starmer's vision quest

[icowden]

How many children are using their phone as a medical device though? If a small number have to bypass the ban then so be it, that will always be the case. If the vast majority lose access it will also reduce peer pressure on those who retain access for some legitimate reason.

Well for type 1 diabetes around 30,000 to 35,000. Then add to that any kids with heart rhythm disorders, hypertension, and some kids with hearing impairments.

The vast majority won't lose access, they'll just find a way around it.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I don't know how I feel about this social media "ban", but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I was telling my 14yo son about it last night, and he just said he'll use a VPN! I guess you can set it to a country that doesn't have the ban, and will not be prompted to provide age verification on creating an account? Or maybe you can continue using one's own account? Anyway, what would be the consequences of knowing your son or daughter does that, technically you are complicit in them breaking the law? And who's going to know? It does seem like it will only capture a small percentage of kids who either don't know about VPNs or can't be bothered. The rest will carry on as normal

As I read it, your son would not be breaking the law, the social media company would be breaking the law by allowing a child to create an account; however, the legislation will no doubt incorporate a load of reasonableness tests such that the old child slipping through will be accepted.

Also, I'd be interested to know what your son would be sufficiently interested in using that he would want to use a VPN. Is it the need to talk to other kids who may no longer use social media or a desperate desire to be fed a tiktok algorithm?

 

[PurplePenguin]

One intriguing aspect of this discussion to me is that all the Android controls essentially require a Google account, so you have to choose between handing over even more data to Google, implementing some controls or paying for third party software.

I'm currently undecided.

 

[Pross]

Well for type 1 diabetes around 30,000 to 35,000. Then add to that any kids with heart rhythm disorders, hypertension, and some kids with hearing impairments.

The vast majority won't lose access, they'll just find a way around it.

So maybe 0.5 - 1%

 

[BoldonLad]

I don't know how I feel about this social media "ban", but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I was telling my 14yo son about it last night, and he just said he'll use a VPN! I guess you can set it to a country that doesn't have the ban, and will not be prompted to provide age verification on creating an account? Or maybe you can continue using one's own account? Anyway, what would be the consequences of knowing your son or daughter does that, technically you are complicit in them breaking the law? And who's going to know? It does seem like it will only capture a small percentage of kids who either don't know about VPNs or can't be bothered. The rest will carry on as normal

It is not only the kids who will get around it, the parents have already started with the “my child is a special case” bleating.

 

[First Aspect]

One intriguing aspect of this discussion to me is that all the Android controls essentially require a Google account, so you have to choose between handing over even more data to Google, implementing some controls or paying for third party software.

I'm currently undecided.

Just create a gmail account you don't use for anything else. Then log off your browser when you want to use a VPN to watch porn. Hth.

 

[Electric_Andy]

I'd be interested to know what your son would be sufficiently interested in using that he would want to use a VPN. Is it the need to talk to other kids who may no longer use social media or a desperate desire to be fed a tiktok algorithm?

They (his friend group) primarily use snapchat, which could easily be replaced with Whattsapp (and he currently uses anyway). And Tiktok, which is as you suggest, just scrolling through videos for entertainment.

 

[PurplePenguin]

One intriguing aspect of this discussion to me is that all the Android controls essentially require a Google account, so you have to choose between handing over even more data to Google, implementing some controls or paying for third party software.

I'm currently undecided.

Just had a chat with AI about this. Copilot recommends using Tiny MDM, which according to Copilot, actually works unlike all the parental apps, but there is no obvious website encouraging this for parents. This makes me wonder whether it is a complete hallucination or whether, as Copilot suggests, Google does everything it can to discourage this approach because it's effective and takes Google out of it.

 

[briantrumpet]

Just had a chat with AI about this. Copilot recommends using Tiny MDM, which according to Copilot, actually works unlike all the parental apps, but there is no obvious website encouraging this for parents. This makes me wonder whether it is a complete hallucination or whether, as Copilot suggests, Google does everything it can to discourage this approach because it's effective and takes Google out of it.

Obviously I'll be amused if it's an hallucination. I've had a few of those on Gemini, and as soon as you say "That doesn't work" it says "You're right, that doesn't work."

 

[PurplePenguin]

Obviously I'll be amused if it's an hallucination. I've had a few of those on Gemini, and as soon as you say "That doesn't work" it says "You're right, that doesn't work."

Gemini begrudgingly supports copilot's view "a bit like using an industrial forklift to move a couch" whilst pushing Google's Family Link.

I'd be genuinely interested to read some expert views on this, but from a brief browse it seems parents just don't understand technology which leads me to the conclusion that you either trust your kids to move the couch on their own or you get a forklift.

 

[briantrumpet]

Gemini begrudgingly supports copilot's view "a bit like using an industrial forklift to move a couch" whilst pushing Google's Family Link.

I'd be genuinely interested to read some expert views on this, but from a brief browse it seems parents just don't understand technology which leads me to the conclusion that you either trust your kids to move the couch on their own or you get a forklift.

I suspect very often it's the other way round, that the kids laught at parents' ineptitude at tech stuff.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I suspect very often it's the other way round, that the kids laught at parents' ineptitude at tech stuff.

Well, just as a starter, a lot of apps monitor messaging to check for bullying and inappropriate conversations. You know, the sort of thing to give parents peace of mind. However, none of them can monitor Whatsapp because it is encrypted.

 

[Psamathe]

You can still apply blocks to an adult profile. I have some setup on my own personal phone (certain sites, apps, etc.)

But it's blocked using your account and password. You can choose to unblock it.

You can set a PIN code to lock the settings (a PIN code the person setting the code enters and different from the devicve unlock PIN. ie in the settings there is an option "Lock Settings" which prompts the person selecting it to enter a PIN code after which the entered code is required to unlock it.

ie Adult sets up locks on child's phone (which for various reasons has an adult iCloud account) to block AppStore purchases (eg VPN app), then same adult sets a PIN code on those locks and hands phone back to child and child doesn't know the PIN code so can't change the settings. It's an on-phone lock NOT an iCloud account lock.

 

[Psamathe]

It is not only the kids who will get around it, the parents have already started with the “my child is a special case” bleating.

Even if those children are "a special case", all their friends will not be using Social Media so they'll have a lonely time using it.

 

[Psamathe]

How many children are using their phone as a medical device though? If a small number have to bypass the ban then so be it, that will always be the case. If the vast majority lose access it will also reduce peer pressure on those who retain access for some legitimate reason.

Absolutely, no rule or law is ever going to be 100% perfect, so should government just not bother?
Better to introduce a law they feel is right overall and then permit specific exemptions.

I agree. The "some might get round it" argument could also be applied to speed limits - should we scrap all speed limites everywhere in the UK as some might not obey them?