These Covid Polices Are Going Well .....

[Unkraut]

4 days ago was the third anniversary of the first case of a corona infection in Germany, and today - finally - the last of the corona regulations has been lifted - wearing masks in trains and busses.

Some looking back on what was done well and what wasn't. Closing schools down too quickly and for too long is generally considered to have been the biggest mistake. This is of course with hindsight.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Are the public generally happy with how it was handled? I would imagine they'll be collecting stats for decades and looking at how each step affected the spread and survival rates and so on.

 

[Unkraut]

I think for the first year or so most people think the govt handled it well, with excellent cooperation between the Länder and Berlin. It was unknown territory and mistakes were bound to be made. As time went on the country's federal structure - designed for obvious reasons to prevent power accumulating in the centre ever again - began to work against actually getting decisions made put into practice. The right decisions would be made but it started to take weeks if not months to get them implemented, no one person was responsible so things just didn't get done. Cumbersome bureaucracy.

Although very popular I think Merkel was tired out from too long a period in office and it showed, but most felt the country was in a safe pair of hands.

The biggest mistake imo was having said very clearly across the political spectrum that vaccination would always remain voluntary the govt changed its mind and tried to make it mandatory. I can understand this, as the healthcare system did get near to being overwhelmed with non-vaccinated patients. In the end this was only implemented for staff working in healthcare, agreement was never reached on what the legislation for the rest of the population would look like, and as the situation eased it was taken off the table again. There was a very real fear that such legislation could be thrown out by the Constitutional Court as being too invasive in citizen's private sphere.

One of my abiding memories is of just how badly prepared the infrastructure was to deal with the pandemic. The health authorities using outdated methods like faxes instead of e-mail due to a failure to invest over the last couple of decades.

One of the nicest things was to see all the various politicians from the Länder sink their personal political differences and work for the common good. Something else was a willingness to admit making mistakes, not something you usually see in politicians!

 

[AuroraSaab]

Thanks for that info, it's interesting. I remember early on in the vaccine programme there were concerns that the federal system in Germany was hampering the roll out. It seemed to take them much longer to get up and running. Much bigger country though so the logistics would be harder anyway. I think take up was much slower than in the UK as well if I recall correctly, with more scepticism about the jabs than over here.

 

[BoldonLad]

I think for the first year or so most people think the govt handled it well, with excellent cooperation between the Länder and Berlin. It was unknown territory and mistakes were bound to be made. As time went on the country's federal structure - designed for obvious reasons to prevent power accumulating in the centre ever again - began to work against actually getting decisions made put into practice. The right decisions would be made but it started to take weeks if not months to get them implemented, no one person was responsible so things just didn't get done. Cumbersome bureaucracy.

Although very popular I think Merkel was tired out from too long a period in office and it showed, but most felt the country was in a safe pair of hands.

The biggest mistake imo was having said very clearly across the political spectrum that vaccination would always remain voluntary the govt changed its mind and tried to make it mandatory. I can understand this, as the healthcare system did get near to being overwhelmed with non-vaccinated patients. In the end this was only implemented for staff working in healthcare, agreement was never reached on what the legislation for the rest of the population would look like, and as the situation eased it was taken off the table again. There was a very real fear that such legislation could be thrown out by the Constitutional Court as being too invasive in citizen's private sphere.

One of my abiding memories is of just how badly prepared the infrastructure was to deal with the pandemic. The health authorities using outdated methods like faxes instead of e-mail due to a failure to invest over the last couple of decades.

One of the nicest things was to see all the various politicians from the Länder sink their personal political differences and work for the common good. Something else was a willingness to admit making mistakes, not something you usually see in politicians!

Surely, that cannot be true, it is well known that Boris/Hancock got it completely wrong and produced the worst results in the world?

 

[AuroraSaab]

There was a lot made of tables of death rates in various countries, number of hospital admissions, and so on, but I always felt that there were so many variables a direct comparison was pretty difficult. We were counting people who died with covid, but not of it, as a covid death for example.

I think we did very well on the vaccine compared to other countries. The way everybody stepped up to get that developed and rolled out was phenomenal.

I would think that in hindsight there will be lots of things we should and shouldn't have done but probably 10 years before we have stats that start to give us the full picture in terms of mortality rates after covid.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Just wait until we have the Official Inquiry.

Then we will get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, uncontaminated by political expediency.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Well, yes, that's a good point. I would hope the raw data would be available at some point though so independent parties could have a look rather than it being edited and presented with a certain amount of spin.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Found some death stats for this month.
I assume these are total deaths.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

We are mid table with the likes of Italy and Belgium. France has done better, Germany and Sweden have done better still. I would guess the poor rates amongst former Eastern block countries is partly due to slower jab roll out and worse intensive care provision; I don't know if they implemented lock downs etc.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

There was a lot made of tables of death rates in various countries, number of hospital admissions, and so on, but I always felt that there were so many variables a direct comparison was pretty difficult. We were counting people who died with covid, but not of it, as a covid death for example.

I think we did very well on the vaccine compared to other countries. The way everybody stepped up to get that developed and rolled out was phenomenal.

I would think that in hindsight there will be lots of things we should and shouldn't have done but probably 10 years before we have stats that start to give us the full picture in terms of mortality rates after covid.

That, and for example in Europe, Germany was and is almost one of the few countries with and overcapacity in hospitals. In the Netherlands for example they let two medium sized hospitals go bankrupt and close only a few years before the pandemic. If it wasn't for Germany coming to the aid of dutch hospitals by taking in dutch patients the dutch death rate would have been much higher similar for Belgium and i believe Italy.(but that would have been impossible for the uk because off distance)
but there are other factors, in Belgium they go much faster to a gp or hostpital, in the uk too, in the Netherlands if you have a flu it more common just to call your gp get some general advise and stay at home until it's over.
And then there is the factor of general health which diffiriates per country a lot aswell.

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's interesting. So many factors involved.

I do recall the shocking news images from Italy of coffins lined up, before it had really hit the UK, but had forgotten about Germany helping out.

I read a suggestion that the Nordic countries having a high number of single person households had helped, whereas the UK has a lot of multi generational households, especially amongst the Asian communities. Schoolkids passing it to grandparents and so on.

Ireland's rate was low. More isolated rural communities helped perhaps. Younger demographic too maybe.

I had worried that it would be devastating in Africa due to limited access to health care and poor vaccine roll out, but again perhaps a younger demographic and more isolated communities helped. Or we just aren't hearing about it.

Behind every cold statistic is a heartbreaking loss for a family though. Easy to forget that now we are hopefully through the worst.

 

[Fab Foodie]

On a cheery note, Avian Flu seems to be cropping-up in a wider range of wild mammal species. All believed to have come from eating infected birds and no evidence of mammal to mammal transfer apparently. Still we've had a taster of what what viruses are capable of, anything is possible....

 

[Unkraut]

Surely, that cannot be true, it is well known that Boris/Hancock got it completely wrong and produced the worst results in the world?

Believe it or not, when the decision was made to vaccinate the elderly first, the staff at the health authorities had to start by looking for pre-WW2 names in the telephone directory. Unbelievable. All the information was available at the local finance office (dealing with tax etc.) but as this data had been collected only for the purpose of financial matters it couldn't be used for health matters.

I would think that in hindsight there will be lots of things we should and shouldn't have done

The German health minister Jens Spahn said early on that by the time we get through this pandemic 'all of us [politcians] will have something for which we will have to apologise'.

I do recall the shocking news images from Italy of coffins lined up ...

I remember this well, and the effect it had here was the population as a whole started doing the social distancing etc voluntarily to avoid the same consequences. The result was R = 1 already achieved before the govt implemented corona regulations.