Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
National Insurance, Council Tax, water,gas,electric... Food prices going up Petrol/Diesel has too.
We're really discussing weather a 20 quid a week benefit should be cut/taken away from some of the most vulnerable ?
After all the money being wasted to Johnson and his chums I seriously don't get it.
 

mudsticks

Squire
National Insurance, Council Tax, water,gas,electric... Food prices going up Petrol/Diesel has too.
We're really discussing weather a 20 quid a week benefit should be cut/taken away from some of the most vulnerable ?
After all the money being wasted to Johnson and his chums I seriously don't get it.

Nope me neither.

Even if you're the most hard headed accounted who doesn't give a shoot about any other human being.

Poverty costs the whole of society, in so many ways..

Ill health, addiction, poor educational attainment, DV , low productivity, homelessness, crime etc etc.

All these problems are exacerbated by poverty.

At a cost to all of us in the long run.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
IMO there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a work capability assessment method.

The problems can only come about in the purpose and methodology used. The assessors work within the parameters and guidelines they are given by the organisation they work for.

A system that is designed to reduce number of claimants and make it as difficult as possible to pass is likely to be different to one that is agreed by health practitioners, and is suitable for various types of work, as one that gives a realistic judgement on the abilities of the applicant.

It is clear that people will have different views on the WCA we have. My view based on discussions with people I know, who have experience of the system is that the way the system works currently is more like the former. Other people may have different views.

As with any system there is the possibility of fraud or "gaming" the system but the answer is a better system, not necessarily a harder one, which is as likely to penalise many genuine cases as well as the cheats. Plus an acceptance that there will be some successful attempts at fraud, as in any system that gives money to people, including tax evasion at all levels.

I have read about UBI, and have a view that it should be considered as an option for the future, but do not know enough about it to have a strong opinion yet.
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
Craig,
Genuine question - no political side or angle or sarcasm intended.

If you, someone who knows the present system with 30 years experience, can't fathom how to improve and, just as importantly, cost the benefits system for the benefit of the vulnerable and the people who need it, for whatever their circumstances, how can 'people like us' actually help to lobby Government in a positive way?
But I have never said I could. I have said endlessly that a proper review needs to take place.

The problem, like all of this, is that nothing proposed by a Tory government will ever meet what you want, and as no-one is willing to put a figure to what they think it should be you can all keep endlessly slagging the government for not doing enough.

Come on, one of you, what should be the level of a Universal Basic Income in £'s?
 
IMO there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a work capability assessment method.

The problems can only come about in the purpose and methodology used. The assessors work within the parameters and guidelines they are given by the organisation they work for.

A system that is designed to reduce number of claimants and make it as difficult as possible to pass is likely to be different to one that is agreed by health practitioners, and is suitable for various types of work, as one that gives a realistic judgement on the abilities of the applicant.

It is clear that people will have different views on the WCA we have. My view based on discussions with people I know, who have experience of the system is that the way the system works currently is more like the former. Other people may have different views.

As with any system there is the possibility of fraud or "gaming" the system but the answer is a better system, not necessarily a harder one, which is as likely to penalise many genuine cases as well as the cheats. Plus an acceptance that there will be some successful attempts at fraud, as in any system that gives money to people, including tax evasion at all levels.

I have read about UBI, and have a view that it should be considered as an option for the future, but do not know enough about it to have a strong opinion yet.
How about having assessors who actually know what they're asking about.
"Does it hurt?" met with the question
"Do you mean does smashing your head repeatedly on a concrete floor?"
"Yeah, yeah"
"There's a wall there, smash your head on it until you draw blood, then let me know if it hurts."


Or, on explaining coming to/round in an ambulance or looking up at the ceiling in an A&E and being met with the question "That's when you call for help!"
Why would anyone need to call for help after that help has arrived and been given? Using a mobile isn't high on my priorities at those times, but being able to use one is considered a priority.
Blood pressure taken, without the cuff inflating, and announcing a "measured" resting heart rate of 140 to be "perfectly normal".

They don't want to see you when you're near your worst, but will penalise you if you don't turn up for the same reason. Even if you manage to get a message to them, saying you can't keep the appointment.
 
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But I have never said I could. I have said endlessly that a proper review needs to take place.

The problem, like all of this, is that nothing proposed by a Tory government will ever meet what you want, and as no-one is willing to put a figure to what they think it should be you can all keep endlessly slagging the government for not doing enough.

Come on, one of you, what should be the level of a Universal Basic Income in £'s?

I cannot speak for @Archie_tect but I'd regard it as highly unlikely that a Tory government could come up with the right reforms; it's just not in their DNA. IDS, the Father of UC, went because Osborne insisted on kicking claimants. Amber Rudd was moving it in the right direction though, for example cutting the qualifying wait and improving advances.

Therese Coffey doesn't even understand how it works.
 
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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
.........

Plus it's my birthday and a rather delightful younger man has just brought me a cup of coffee and marmite on sourdough toast *

So I must concentrate on being made a fuss of :okay:

*Artisanal natch, there's a marvellous woman in the village who bakes us eight loaves every week..:rolleyes:

Happy birthday!

IMHO, all of the best people have their birthday in October ;)

Edit: don't know how that happened, I quoted @mudsticks post, and @Rusty Nails was quoted instead! Could they be the same person ? I will try to correct, before my "edit time" expires ;)

I have fixed it, but, don't know how/why it happened.
 
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