Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

[BoldonLad]

Article here which outlines places where a Basic Income has been trialled. Not a Universal Basic Income in most examples; mostly given out at random, allocated to those in poverty, or given to particular communities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo.../2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map

The article is a bit biased in my opinion as they seem very pro BI and don't cover much of the downsides, but it does raise some interesting questions as to whether it could work on a bigger scale.

My understanding is that for a Universal Basic Income to be affordable in a country like the UK, other benefits would have to be reduced or done away with altogether. That would be great for me as it's free money, but if you claim a range of benefits then you could end up worse off. A single parent with a disabled child for example, who needs a lot of support. I could see it working in economies in the developing world where the welfare state is non existent and the money given would quickly find its way back into the economy.

Yes, I am a great fan, of the theory, it is nice and simple, and, I like simple.... but... to move from our current complex system would produce a lot of winners and a lot of users, I would want to see much more detail of such a proposal before voting "yes".

 

[BoldonLad]

What about closing tax loopholes to pay for it?

Agreed, Yes, why not... but... how can we know that will provide enough to pay for "it", off we don't know the cost of "it", and, at best, the amount lost through tax loopholes is, by definition, an estimate?

 

[BoldonLad]

Why is that many on the right believe you can beat the poverty out of the poor ?

Have I missed some posts, or, have some been deleted? I didn't notice anyone advocating violence toward the poor?

 

[Pale Rider]

Have I missed some posts, or, have some been deleted? I didn't notice anyone advocating violence toward the poor?

Must be a loaded statement.

 

[cookiemonster]

I've yet to see a suggestion from you. Repeating the words 'controlled and sensible' isn't going to work.

So, let's have a suggestion or two from you.

Sorry @Craig the cyclist you have suggested things, I didn't noticed it. Please ignore that post.

Note to self - drink more coffee before replying in the morning.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

From my armchair I have quickly, for

I find it hard to believe that you have never come across such a widely used example of a loaded question. In the hope that it’s ignorance rather something worse, here’s a Wikipedia link that may help explain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

Deliberate misreading appears to be a characteristic technique. I've seen it used a couple of times by the same member.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Because if they don't pay they can be evicted and no-one seems overly bothered by people working getting evicted. If a benefit claimer gets evicted there is hell to pay and the same landlord that would have evicted a working non-payer suddenly becomes a 'slum landlord'.

I'm sorry Craig but that's just nonsense. Possibly the worst private btl landlords, the Wilsons, wouldn't even accept benefit claimants. Section 21 makes it far to easy for Landlords to evict.

In any event the amount in Universal Credit for rent is often simply not enough; the claimant has to top up from the portion that's meant to feed clothe etc them and their children.

 

[AndyRM]

Is that after rebate/deductions to reflect your circs?

Yes. Though the monthly thing has gone out the window in any case, apparently my payment for June hadn't gone through so I've just had to pay the whole lot off until March, so au revoir my small amount of savings. Great...

 

[Bromptonaut]

Yes. Though the monthly thing has gone out the window in any case, apparently my payment for June hadn't gone through so I've just had to pay the whole lot off until March, so au revoir my small amount of savings. Great...

The reduction for low income is set by the billing authority; every council in England has its own scheme. A sole occupier should get the 25% reduction everybody gets to reflect that, then whatever CTR (Council Tax Reduction) is allowed by the scheme in a particular area.

A very few still pay 100% but most now only meet 70-80%. A few, take a bow Lincolnshire, are as low as 50%. Others limit to the equivalent of band D or E.

 

[fozy tornip]

Strewth. So local taxation can take, if I'm reading Adam right, something like 25% of his UC income?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Strewth. So local taxation can take, if I'm reading Adam right, something like 25% of his UC income?

Nearer a third.

Absurd.

 

[Rusty Nails]

No, please enlighten us to why you suggested I hit my wife?

It is weird how you are so right on in other threads but you think, in the current climate, that bringing an accusation of domestic abuse into a thread is still appropriate?

Like i said, maybe it says more about your true beliefs than all your bang on message PC comments in other threads. Maybe really you think that joking about me hitting my wife is actually a good way to advance an argument?

I don't know you either, but I think we all got a good glimpse of your true colours this evening.

I was going to explain all about loaded questions but @newfhouse beat me to it. Surprised a knowledgeable man like you had not come across that particular very well known one before. I assumed you understood about them because you have used a similar approach in the past, but every day is a learning day on here.

At what points in your life did you believe slavery was acceptable?

Is that because you enjoy hearing of Fuzzy Wuzzys being bayonetted?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Possibly the worst private btl landlords, the Wilsons

You judge all landlords by the Wilsons then do you? Not for ages now, but for a while we rented out a flat, only while we were moving in together though so for about a year, then my ex-wife sold her flat and that was our foray in to milking the poor for all their money while making them live in squalor complete. Seriously, if I had known it would be so easy to make a fortune from benefit claimants I would have bought more!

I reckon we have a number of landlords on here, come on, step forward all you money grabbing hovel owning abusers of benefit claimants.

 

[Bromptonaut]

You judge all landlords by the Wilsons then do you?

Where do you even begin to get that from? I described them as 'probably the worst'.

The starting point for this was your punitive and impractical suggestion, which also runs contrary to the basic concept of UC that the Housing Element should be paid directly to Landlords.

In eight years with an advice charity I've had plenty of exposure to private landlords where there are issues of one sort or another.

They range from those with infinite patience and a real social conscience through money grubbing hovel owners to one who was downright creepy. The vast majority are much closer to the former.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

The starting point for this was your punitive and impractical suggestion, which also runs contrary to the basic concept of UC that the Housing Element should be paid directly to Landlords.

Sorry, maybe I misunderstand you, I have suggested that rent should go direct to the landlord, you have said here that would contrary to the basic concept, which is to pay the money direct to the landlords. Isn't that better described as 'exactly the same as', and not 'contrary to'?

Look, you can snipe and disagree with absolutely everything I type, that's fine, but I am trying to move this forward with suggestions, you are stuck in a loop of 'well that is rubbish', and 'so is that', 'the Tories are terrible'. You have years of experience too, how was it for benefit claimants under Labour?