Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

[the snail]

For the record I believe that paying rents direct to the landlord for claimants is not a good idea unless those claimants have a continued and demonstrable history of non-payment. Good landlords also deserve support.

I had a lodger who claimed benefits, and his rent (minus some arbitrary amount) was paid direct to me. Something went wrong with his claim, and I got a letter demanding I repay all the money on threat of legal action. No way would I do that again.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Interesting.

Personally, I didn't agree with the "rent direct to landlord", and, said so.

But, I am aware (through voluntary work) that none payment of rent often leads to debt, further hardship and eventually homelessness, a downward spiral. Is every initiative to stop/reverse this downward spiral (other than shovelling more money in) to be considered "beating the poor"?

I'm presently a professional benefits adviser but got into that by the same type of volunteering you describe.

Rent paid direct to the landlord should be a tool in the armoury for people not managing, whether through extravagance, addiction or simply inability to manage. It's possible that, under the current UC regime it is too hard to get direct payment.

For the reasons I set out already any reform that actually makes benefit more equitable for claimants needs to reverse a whole swathe of cuts. That is not, in my book, shovelling money in.

Many of the cuts and restrictions are, like the cap and the two child limit, deliberate attempts to play to the audience rather than address real problems. I will characterise that, along with the dream of a number of those on the right of the party who want benefits on cashless cards with no cigs or booze allowed, as beating claimants albeit metaphorically rather than physically.

I invite @Craig the cyclist to respond to the comments I actually made rather than inventing a straw man about bashing up claimants and making faux demands for an apology.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm presently a professional benefits adviser but got into that by the same type of volunteering you describe.

Rent paid direct to the landlord should be a tool in the armoury for people not managing, whether through extravagance, addiction or simply inability to manage. It's possible that, under the current UC regime it is too hard to get direct payment.

For the reasons I set out already any reform that actually makes benefit more equitable for claimants needs to reverse a whole swathe of cuts. That is not, in my book, shovelling money in.

Many of the cuts and restrictions are, like the cap and the two child limit, deliberate attempts to play to the audience rather than address real problems. I will characterise that, along with the dream of a number of those on the right of the party who want benefits on cashless cards with no cigs or booze allowed, as beating claimants albeit metaphorically rather than physically.

I invite @Craig the cyclist to respond to the comments I actually made rather than inventing a straw man about bashing up claimants and making faux demands for an apology.

I didn't advocate any of the things you mention (bolded above).

I used "shovelling money in" as a lazy shorthand, to imply, in my experience, increasing the income of those who lack the skill(s), or, in rare cases, desire, to manage their money will not solve the problem.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I didn't advocate any of the things you mention (bolded above).

I used "shovelling money in" as a lazy shorthand, to imply, in my experience, increasing the income of those who lack the skill(s), or, in rare cases, desire, to manage their money will not solve the problem.

The comments about beating claimants out of poverty (or maybe poverty out of claimants) were responses to @Craig the cyclist.

While I might differ from what you say it was never my intention to suggest you were preaching from the same pulpit as Craig.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Rent paid direct to the landlord should be a tool in the armoury for people not managing, whether through extravagance, addiction or simply inability to manage.

So when I suggest that paying rent directly you say I am beating the poor and that is wrong. I assume though that from what you have written here, you think it is ok to beat extravagant people, addicts and thick people?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

And please don't try Whataboutery regarding Labour governments and Mental Health. It's been a Cinderella area for as long as my career has touched on it (at least the nineties). The Tories have been in power for 11 years; ample opportunity for a step change. At least things stopped going back under Labour.

It bloody well didn't on the shop floor.

**Slightly off topic rant**

I worked in an NHS Trust that went from 4 x 28 bedded wards and 6 high dependency beds, to 1 x 18 bedded ward and 4 high dependency beds between 1999 and 2006 for exactly the same population. As a CPN I had a caseload of about 30 to 40 patients in around 2000, that grew to between 70 and 80 patients when I left to do a more specialist job in 2005.

All under Labour.

Now clearly I am more Conservative than many on here, but in a completely non-political point, no party does well with the NHS despite all the graphs and charts and statistics they can come up with. I started in 1989, and have been bent over and rogered by every single government since then. Some of our lowest levels of staffing were during the Blair years, when incredibly we lost staff to pay for the shiney new PFI hospitals which we couldn't then staff! The huge change in MH services was under Margaret Thatcher, some good, some bad. The Lib Dems made a plan, then implemented absolutely none of it. This time round with the conservatives there has been a ton of cash, but as ever it hasn't quite made it to MH as other people grab it first. MH services under all governments is just given lip-service, Blue, Red or Orange!

 

[Deleted member 28]

It bloody well didn't on the shop floor.

**Slightly off topic rant**

I worked in an NHS Trust that went from 4 x 28 bedded wards and 6 high dependency beds, to 1 x 18 bedded ward and 4 high dependency beds between 1999 and 2006 for exactly the same population. As a CPN I had a caseload of about 30 to 40 patients in around 2000, that grew to between 70 and 80 patients when I left to do a more specialist job in 2005.

All under Labour.

Now clearly I am more Conservative than many on here, but in a completely non-political point, no party does well with the NHS despite all the graphs and charts and statistics they can come up with. I started in 1989, and have been bent over and rogered by every single government since then. Some of our lowest levels of staffing were during the Blair years, when incredibly we lost staff to pay for the shiney new PFI hospitals which we couldn't then staff! The huge change in MH services was under Margaret Thatcher, some good, some bad. The Lib Dems made a plan, then implemented absolutely none of it. This time round with the conservatives there has been a ton of cash, but as ever it hasn't quite made it to MH as other people grab it first. MH services under all governments is just given lip-service, Blue, Red or Orange!

My Missus started her training in '88 so similar age to you I guess, same experiences and once she hit 55 decided enough was enough and retired. Hat off to you pal.

 

[Bromptonaut]

So when I suggest that paying rent directly you say I am beating the poor and that is wrong. I assume though that from what you have written here, you think it is ok to beat extravagant people, addicts and thick people?

Please could you explain the rationale for the accusation in the last sentence.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It bloody well didn't on the shop floor.

**Slightly off topic rant**

I worked in an NHS Trust that went from 4 x 28 bedded wards and 6 high dependency beds, to 1 x 18 bedded ward and 4 high dependency beds between 1999 and 2006 for exactly the same population. As a CPN I had a caseload of about 30 to 40 patients in around 2000, that grew to between 70 and 80 patients when I left to do a more specialist job in 2005.

All under Labour.

Now clearly I am more Conservative than many on here, but in a completely non-political point, no party does well with the NHS despite all the graphs and charts and statistics they can come up with. I started in 1989, and have been bent over and rogered by every single government since then. Some of our lowest levels of staffing were during the Blair years, when incredibly we lost staff to pay for the shiney new PFI hospitals which we couldn't then staff! The huge change in MH services was under Margaret Thatcher, some good, some bad. The Lib Dems made a plan, then implemented absolutely none of it. This time round with the conservatives there has been a ton of cash, but as ever it hasn't quite made it to MH as other people grab it first. MH services under all governments is just given lip-service, Blue, Red or Orange!

I agree with you that no party in modern years has been successful at making major, long-lasting improvements to the NHS and front line staff have always had to carry a lot of that burden. A full, independent analysis of the differences between the various governments' approach and legacy is much more reliable than personal anecdotes, but this report by Polly Toynbee for the BMJ does give a mixed, not overly positive, summary of the performance of Tony Blair's government with the NHS.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1871752/

 

[FishFright]

I did ask for clarification of which posts on here suggested violence or beating the poor, but, so far "answer came there none".

Because it's a silly question. Apply a small bit of thought about what that means rather than taking it literally and failing to look smart. Which is why I ignored it last time.

 

[qigong chimp]

As a CPN I had a caseload of about 30 to 40

My eyes aren't so good these days: help me out someone.
Does that say 'CPN' or 'bailiff'?

 

[BoldonLad]

Because it's a silly question. Apply a small bit of thought about what that means rather than taking it literally and failing to look smart. Which is why I ignored it last time.

I always taught there is no such thing as a silly question... but, I bow to your superior intellect.

 

[FishFright]

I always taught there is no such thing as a silly question... but, I bow to your superior intellect.

I didn't think there was either but hey , you managed it.

 

[Mr Celine]

Speaking of silly questions see what UC claimants are now being asked to do.

 

[classic33]

Speaking of silly questions see what UC claimants are now being asked to do.

View attachment 129

Most of the street name plates round these parts are halfway up the side of a building. How do they expect anyone to manage to place their Hanson them.