Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

[Craig the cyclist]

If my salary was already in excess of what I needed, yes I would.

Put a figure to that then. How much do you 'need'?

Personally I think we need more people from more 'ordinary' modest incomed background s in Parliament.

But as soon as they are elected, they are on £82,000 and suddenly become part of the elite. Then they will be faced with contradictory votes, and within a few months the 'ordinary shop worker' will be being slated on here as a benefit cutting wanker who has sold out for the money. It is almost how it has to be. Look at Clegg and tuition fees. In opposition and on the campaign trail it was all cut fees, education should be free, then a few months later and in power and handed the balance sheet what happened.........

All this probably sounds like a whole bunch of piety, or virtue signalling, or 'goody two shoes' or summat

Yep

 

[Bromptonaut]

Look at Clegg and tuition fees. In opposition and on the campaign trail it was all cut fees, education should be free, then a few months later and in power and handed the balance sheet what happened.........

That I think is unfair. The LD's were junior members of a coalition. In the aftermath of the 2010 election there was a fear on money market meltdown and a financial crisis like that of Greece. Not sure it was real but the perception of trouble if a government was not in place PDQ was very real and pressured the negotiations. Hanging out for tuition fees when they'd already got Tax Allowance reform and a referendum on FPTP in the bag was courting failure and blame for the consequences.

Abolition of tuition fees was dead in the water; a price the Tories would not permit.

 

[Archie_tect]

Hanging out for tuition fees when they'd already got Tax Allowance reform and a referendum on FPTP in the bag...

Sorry to ask a question that's off topic, and I know my memory's bad, but did we get a referendum on FPTP?

 

[BoldonLad]

Sorry to ask a question that's off topic, and I know my memory's bad, but did we get a referendum on FPTP?

Apparently, yes, May 5 2011, according to WiKipedia. But, to be honest, I do not recall voting in it, although I am sure I would have (unless I was out of Country).

If Wiki is to be believed, less that half the population voted (42%), and of those 68% voted No Change, and 32% voted Change.

 

[AndyRM]

And once more, it isn't a bloody cut.

It bloody is.

"This increase has now been cut."

The whole system is a nightmare. A friend of mine's girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer shortly before Covid hit. The process she had to go through to claim UC was ridiculous. Likewise my brother who claims disability or PIP or whatever they call it these days, he has to get his husband to fill the forms in because he finds them so difficult to understand.

The goalposts and requirements change regularly and make it difficult and confusing for a lot of people.

Hell, I was turned away from a face to face meeting a few weeks ago because I tripped, fell over, and they thought I was drunk. Wouldn't even let me in the building.

The welfare of the most needy should be supported as much as possible, raising the level for a bit and then cutting it back whilst changing the expectations around UC is harsh to say the least.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Well, we have a solution to our own issue. Just set up a standing order for £20 to @AndyRM and equilibrium will be restored

Really.....is it only Andy who's having his money cut...yes cut !

If I had worked for 30 years to get to the top of my game, and be paid £120,000 to do it, I certainly wouldn't take a £40k pay cut to be an MP. Would you?

But if your earning that much why are you so fecking bothered ! No wonder were fecked as a country.Its irrelevant what you or I earn...(mine is shite at the moment but I get by) it's about a bit of fairness.Leveling up as your numpty of a Prime Minister calls it.I can see why you voted for him though 🙄
Wouldn't of wanted those nasty tax rises for anyone over 80,000 would you...

 

[mudsticks]

It bloody is.

"This increase has now been cut."

The whole system is a nightmare. A friend of mine's girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer shortly before Covid hit. The process she had to go through to claim UC was ridiculous. Likewise my brother who claims disability or PIP or whatever they call it these days, he has to get his husband to fill the forms in because he finds them so difficult to understand.

The goalposts and requirements change regularly and make it difficult and confusing for a lot of people.

Hell, I was turned away from a face to face meeting a few weeks ago because I tripped, fell over, and they thought I was drunk. Wouldn't even let me in the building.

The welfare of the most needy should be supported as much as possible, raising the level for a bit and then cutting it back whilst changing the expectations around UC is harsh to say the least.

Hearing similar stories around me.

And of course there will be many more who are too proud to admit they're struggling.

Or they're embarrassed that they're asking for 'handouts' so will say nothing about their predicament .

I'm doing alright now, but I have lived on a poverty income, and been insecurely housed, in the past.

It wasn't so bad for me because I was embedded in the kind of community where people, understood, and helped each other out.

I knew I'd always be able to stay with someone, or there would be food on offer somewhere.

But it still wasn't great.

The current scheme , if you're 'vulnerable' in any way sounds very difficult to navigate.

 

[Bromptonaut]

And that is unfortunate, but maybe those working with claimants should have been clearer the whole way through that the uplift was temporary. It is tricky, but if I gave you 10 widgets one week, then said for just next week you can have 11, but we are back to ten the week after, the third week will feel like a cut. It wasn't though, the middle week was one extra.

There's no point in you and I continuing to argue over this. We've both made our positions clear and others can decide which account they favour. There's already far too much last worditis in NACA; I'm taking a vow not to contribute.

As an adviser with a national charity I always tried to be crystal clear on this, making clear what the end date was and how the numbers would stack up when it went. Particularly so with those moving from 'legacy' benefits to UC as it meant they were often better off on UC then on legacy as for reasons that make no sense the uplift was not applied to ESA/JSA etc.

DWP could have helped understanding by showing the uplift as a separate item when providing the claimant's statement at the end of each assessment period rather than incorporating it into the Standard Allowance. It may though be that doing so would require changes to the IT.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

There's no point in you and I continuing to argue over this

I didn't see it as an argument, but fair enough. No more lastworditis from me either.

Although it was only a temporary uplift as you frequently told the people you work with......



But no-more, I feel absolutely sure we can find something else to disagree on

 

[mudsticks]

Really.....is it only Andy who's having his money cut...yes cut !

But if your earning that much why are you so fecking bothered ! No wonder were fecked as a country.Its irrelevant what you or I earn...(mine is shite at the moment but I get by) it's about a bit of fairness.Leveling up as your numpty of a Prime Minister calls it.I can see why you voted for him though 🙄
Wouldn't of wanted those nasty tax rises for anyone over 80,000 would you...

It was probably inevitable, after years and years of "greed is good, every man for himself, capitalism is king" style policies, and 'demonising the disadvantaged' social norms, not just here, but seeping from across the pond.

That would eventually make people start to believe that they truly were 'worth' disproportionately so much more in terms of income, and it all be about the money.

So 'worth and value' is all about bank balance, how much you can salt away in property and or investment.

So it might seem ridiculous, the idea that anyone would ever take a satisfying, or worthwhile job paying less, even if they could live on that, because it would be too much for their egos to bear.

I dunno, It would be nice to think we could row back from that attitude, in years to come.

I think we're going to have to to tackle many of the big issues we face.

I sort of see that happening in some of the younger generation, but I don't know how prevalent it is country wide, because I guess I tend to hang out with people of a similar mindset..

 

[Deleted member 28]

If my salary was already in excess of what I needed, yes I would.

Many people don't earn anything like that , I don't.

Personally I think we need more people from more 'ordinary' modest incomed background s in Parliament.




I'd see becoming an MP as a public service , and an honour.

And an interesting , worthwhile task, where I was trying to change things for the better.

I'd need to be paid enough to live on yes.

But I wouldn't feel financial renumeration was a big part of the reward .

I probably have quite a modest income by a lot of peoples standards.

But I have a working environment , and a job satisfaction rating which compensates.

As part of my 'service to the community' I do a lot of unpaid union, advocacy, campaign and advice work.

I've just spent three hours with a group of people looking to do what I do for a living.

Giving them the benefit of my knowledge, and experience.

I could have charged them a fairly big fat hourly fee for that consultancy.

But I asked them to give a donation to a charity instead. As I don't really personally need that money right now.

Generally you get back what you give out.

All this probably sounds like a whole bunch of piety, or virtue signalling, or 'goody two shoes' or summat.

But I don't actually be think the way I operate is really so unusual.

Plenty of people take a 'service to the society that supports them' attitude to life.

It just gets a bit sneered at right now, as 'suspicious' in some way

I'm sure you do valuable work too.

I believe you pay VAT from what you posted earlier, I guess you turn over 50k or so?

 

[mudsticks]

I believe you pay VAT from what you posted earlier, I guess you turn over 50k or so?

The turnover threshold for VAT is 85K.

However many farmers and food producers are voluntarily VAT registered.

Whatever their turnover.

Because most food is 0% rated when sold.

But the producer can claim back the VAT paid on inputs.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I believe you pay VAT from what you posted earlier, I guess you turn over 50k or so?

Turnover is not the same as profit.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Turnover is not the same as profit.

You're right, if you're turning over 50k growing veg I'd like to think there's a fair amount of profit in it!

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Turnover is not the same as profit.

But the VAT threshold is on turnover, not profit